RigaMortus2
First Post
I think there was a much bigger difference between 2E to 3E than there is for 3E and 4E.
D&D 4E 4E: The Biggest Changes in any D&D Edition Switch
- Thread starter Roman
- Start date
Well, aside from healing surges and changing Vancian magic, what is changing that hasn't changed before? There is fighter powers and marking for instance, but I'm not sure I would call that a bigger change than losing THAC0 and Weapon Proficiencies. Feats in 3e did what a lot of the powers are going to do in 4e.
The fluff changes are huge though. It really is a whole new setting, even if it isn't one with a campaign sourcebook.
The fluff changes are huge though. It really is a whole new setting, even if it isn't one with a campaign sourcebook.
Pretty good poll question. I definitely think "both".
Completely excising the entire magic system and replacing all those powers is something unprecedented in D&D, and that's just for starters. (Again, most spells were largely copy-and-pasted all the way from 1E->3E, with some refinements.)
I've never understood identifying THACO as big a change in 3E, because the math is exactly equivalent to what came before. I had equivalent attack bonuses scribbled in the margin of my 1E DMG long before 3E, and never thought I was really changing anything. As opposed to attacks, saves, hit dice in 4E, which really will be constructed totally differently.
Completely excising the entire magic system and replacing all those powers is something unprecedented in D&D, and that's just for starters. (Again, most spells were largely copy-and-pasted all the way from 1E->3E, with some refinements.)
I've never understood identifying THACO as big a change in 3E, because the math is exactly equivalent to what came before. I had equivalent attack bonuses scribbled in the margin of my 1E DMG long before 3E, and never thought I was really changing anything. As opposed to attacks, saves, hit dice in 4E, which really will be constructed totally differently.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Delta said:
Not really. 2E had a Skills and Powers optional book. Plus much of the powers they are presenting are basically from Tome of Battle. So I suppose it depends on what you consider "unprecendented" or "new". Is Tome of Battle still considered a "new" book? Are the ideas (powers) from Tome of Battle considered "new"?
I will grant you, making them the default for each base class (making the Core) is new, but the idea/concept of them is not...
I see this akin to having a Psion as a base class, and calling that new. Not new to D&D, just new to Core...
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
The results are pretty telling.
A lot of the recent WotC message has been "It's still D&D!"
Perceptions, at least on this self-selecting subset of a subset, appear to differ drastically.
I wonder why that is, that the most vocal people interested (or not) in the new edition think that it's a HUGE change, while WotC seems to be saying "It's not THAT big, guys!" in some places.
A lot of the recent WotC message has been "It's still D&D!"
Perceptions, at least on this self-selecting subset of a subset, appear to differ drastically.
I wonder why that is, that the most vocal people interested (or not) in the new edition think that it's a HUGE change, while WotC seems to be saying "It's not THAT big, guys!" in some places.
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Isn't it simple?Kamikaze Midget said:
WotC doesn't want to alienate old players. We've already read posts that say "It's not D&D anymore. I won't play it"
May of the interested people like the changes and see them as their personal reason to switch to 4E in favor of 4E.
I voted "both" for this reason primarily. But maybe I was wrong. The differences between AD&D and D&D 3E seem pretty big, too. A fully-fledged skill system as core option, high d20 rolls are always good, explicitly stated wealth guidelines, challenge rating system to measure monsters power relative to PCs. Monsters build according to clearly stated rules (caveat: Doesn't really allow you to automatically find the monsters CR, but gives at least a starting point)
On this end, 4E only seems to add powers for everyone (Barbarian, Rogue and Fighter were the only classes without any supernatural abilities in 3E, so is it that much?), readjusts skills and refines the monster vs PCs challenge system and the wealth/magic item guidelines.
Fluff-Wise, I am not sure how big the change is. As far as I know, the Great Wheel wasn't always there. Demons and Devils were renamed between editions, and core races and classes seem to change with editions, too. I don't know how "implied" previous settings where or how explicit they were.
Points of Lights seemed never have been stated in name before 4E, but I am pretty sure the idea existed before.
But then, 3E to 4E is my first edition switch. I never played AD&D, and I probably never will. And I am not "married" to D&D. It's just what we're playing these days, since it seemed to fit our (gamist) preferences the best.
RigaMortus2
First Post
Delta said:
Well, those spells still exist in 4E. They just have different mechanics behind them. And I am sure these spells have changed since 1E, 2E, 3E and now 4E. Compare how Magic Missile works in 3E as opposed to the earlier versions.
Baumi said:
It also does not mean that it is necessarily true either. (Not trying to call you out, just saw your answer as respective of the answers here.) The 4th Edition Pregen character sheets looked a lot like 3rd edition character sheets with 'Situationally Useful Feats'.
That is what the powers say to me...."I selected this feat which allows me to do BLAH once per combat, I selected this feat which allows me to do BLOO once per day..."
I can see how the spells are considered changed, and that is the biggest change I see and it seems to have changed in FAVOR of the players. In my last game we would have done much better with 'Water Walking', a definite non-combat spell, but since there is only one silo 'Spells Per Day' we did not have it.
The skills were still there, just streamlined, the AC was still there, the bonus to hit, the stats, the general crunch that makes a character a character...just changed in presentation.
