D&D 4E 4e With No Casters?

[pukunui]

If it advances the plot, involves character risk ("throw me the whip!"), etc pull out the dice. Otherwise it just slows down a game that can already get bogged down in minutae as it is.

What about when you want to keep your players on their toes and make them think it's dangerous even when it isn't so that when it really truly is dangerous, it won't be as obvious and you'll be able to retain the mystery and surprise of your campaign world instead of getting metagamey responses a la "Oh, he's asking for Spot checks, that must mean there's something there for us to spot ...".

I'm not advocating making them roll absolutely everything; I'm saying that it can be useful to "cry wolf" every so often even if there's no risk involved in order to keep the campaign's levels of foreboding, mystery, and suspense up, which for my group at least makes the whole experience more fun. If they don't know whether a particular encounter is "the real thing" or not, then they have heaps more fun when "the real thing" actually happens.

 

[SSquirrel]

I tend to keep lists of various needed skills handy and handwave many of the rolls. I've always hated the "uh oh, he's making us roll. time to KILL!" reaction people have at the table, so I reduce a lot of that

 

[pukunui]

I tend to keep lists of various needed skills handy and handwave many of the rolls. I've always hated the "uh oh, he's making us roll. time to KILL!" reaction people have at the table, so I reduce a lot of that

Sounds like we've got two different methods of achieving the same end result. Works for me.

 

[SSquirrel]

Absolutely. As long as everyone at the table is enjoying themselves there is no wrong answer.

 

[pukunui]

Absolutely. As long as everyone at the table is enjoying themselves there is no wrong answer.

I wish more people would accept that. There's just too much of the "My way is the only right way" stuff at the moment ...

 

[Jdvn1]

I really like the idea that a party with no caster would be equal in power to a party with no rogue.

After all, with even power levels, shouldn't this theoretically be true?

 

[pukunui]

I really like the idea that a party with no caster would be equal in power to a party with no rogue.

After all, with even power levels, shouldn't this theoretically be true?

Theoretically yes, although in reality it would probably make things more difficult unless the DM is deliberately tailoring encounters for a casterless party.

If you read Shoe's latest playtest report, he comments on his two groups and how the one without any leaders (healers) in it has a slightly more challenging time than the group that has two leaders in it ... however, the leaderless group has more strikers than the group with leaders, so when the dice rolls are on their side, they can end encounters more quickly. So it seems to balance itself out in the end.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Theoretically yes, although in reality it would probably make things more difficult unless the DM is deliberately tailoring encounters for a casterless party.

Well, let's think about this for a second.

Let's take ranger vs. warlock. Both are ranged strikers. Are there any combat scenarios that would have to be changed around a lot if the party had a ranger instead of a warlock?

Warlord vs. cleric, and fighter vs. paladin, same question. If we're assuming that 4e clerics can't cast Fly and Summon Monster and so on, is there any tactical niche that a cleric necessarily is better than a warlord at? Or where a fighter loses out to a paladin?

Obviously I haven't seen these classes in action in 4e, but it doesn't seem like any of these classes can do a whole lot more just by virtue of being "casters."

In fact, the only class that would seem to be potentially "required" is the wizard. He's the one who can cast Fly and Protection from Elements and all those other wacky spells. So instead of worrying about a "casterless" party, maybe we should be worried about a wizardless party! Will this one class be required for every single encounter against flying enemies or extraplanar challenges? I'm gonna go ahead and guess not.

 

[mach1.9pants]

I wish more people would accept that. There's just too much of the "My way is the only right way" stuff at the moment ...

yep that is true, however mine IS the right way

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Also with such specific threats the DM would simply not use those that would require a Wizard to be even able to combat that threat.