D&D 4E 4e's Equivalent to Pathfinder

[Raith5]

Tanks for the link. I cant xp anyone for the next 24 hours!

It is touch early to tell about 5th ed, but the future of 4th ed is certainly on my mind. I think 4th ed just has not got the credit it deserved and frankly I am little tired of defending the virtues of 4th ed. So I will keep fourth party on file.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Unless the Wizards are lying to us, there was a promise recently (citation unknown by me) that they would continue to keep the Fourth Edition on-line tools open to subscribers even after the Fifth Edition arrives. I will look to that to help me run future Fourth stuff. However it would also be nice to see third party products for adventures, conversions and additional stuff for neglected classes, races and locations.

I remain skeptical, but I won't rain on your parade. Too much.

Tanks for the link. I cant xp anyone for the next 24 hours!

It is touch early to tell about 5th ed, but the future of 4th ed is certainly on my mind. I think 4th ed just has not got the credit it deserved and frankly I am little tired of defending the virtues of 4th ed. So I will keep fourth party on file.

You're welcome. I just wrote a 4e adventure that may end up at Fourth Party after Rechan and I play test it with our group.

Anyway, I have similar feelings about 4e/5e. I find myself in a kind of zen place, where I'd be perfectly happy to become a 4e grognard. (A C4 grognard, to be specific.) Though I think the term has a connotation of bitterness that doesn't apply to me.

But whatever, I have a game to run tomorrow!

 

[Pour]

There will be the 4e die-hards, like with any other edition, but I think they're going to be a pretty small crew and given that there was basically no support outside of WotC when the game WAS the latest and greatest I have to believe there will be basically a vast desert of nothing in 2 years except some obscure "4e grognard" site somewhere with a few bad adventures on it, if that.

Hehe, that could very well be the case, but I may as well try and support my edition of choice. So much left to do in the design space, and it looks like all the time in the world to do so after a year or two. Even if I end up loving 5e, right now I'm loving 4e and would like to create in its space. The paper light release schedule of products tailored specifically to 4e in 2012 feels almost like a challenge, and not in a negative way, to do so. I really want to support 4e with grassroots material and see what happens. Maybe we'll have a few good adventures, too.

 

[Sanglorian]

Yes, I cloned 4e without writing a whole new rpg. It has all the errata and a few tweaks of my own, but 99% of the original is left intact. Because really, 4e is just about perfect already.

So unless you just have to have official ongoing support, there's no reason to sing a dirge for 4e.

The retroclones are complete rewrites of the rules, which allows publishers to create legal supplements for those rules, sell print books, and so on. Your C4 project uses a lot of Wizards' material verbatim - which means it couldn't be used as a base for supplements like, say, Swords & Wizardry has been.

That's not to diminish your efforts - it's clearly a labour of love that has taken a lot of time. But it can't serve as a foundation for third party publishers like the retroclones can.

 

[C4]

The question is, why clone the rules?

First, because I can't buy a PHB with errata included. Second, because 4e is almost perfect but it ain't. I don't claim that my clone is perfect, but it's closer than RAW.

It isn't the books that matter, it is the support, the community playing a 'living' edition of the game, DDI, etc. That stuff isn't going to die for a year or two yet, but I'll predict now there are going to be few and far between 4e groups out there playing it in a couple years.

Finding 4e groups will certainly get harder, but that's nothing new. It happens every time a new edition comes out. So if I don't care for 5e, I may have a hard time finding a 4e DM. But as a DM myself, I can pretty much depend on finding players for whatever I want to run.

As to "support," many of us couldn't care less. I've got enough 4e material to play for the rest of my life, and fans are making more every day. I don't need a publisher's logo to have fun.

The retroclones are complete rewrites of the rules, which allows publishers to create legal supplements for those rules, sell print books, and so on. Your C4 project uses a lot of Wizards' material verbatim - which means it couldn't be used as a base for supplements like, say, Swords & Wizardry has been.

That's not to diminish your efforts - it's clearly a labour of love that has taken a lot of time. But it can't serve as a foundation for third party publishers like the retroclones can.

Yeah I'm loose with slang terminology. Maybe someday I'll find a lawyer to parse the GSL for me, and then file the serial numbers off of C4. Though I imagine that'll take quite a bit more editing.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't think anything like P4thfinder will happen, we lack a 4E equivalent to Paizo.
Also, I remain hopeful that the next edition will not require a split like that.

 

[Sanglorian]

I think you're right that among the 4th edition third party publishers there doesn't look like anyone willing or able to step up to clone 4E. Perhaps a community could team up to do it.

However, I don't think a 4e clone would be particularly divisive, because I suspect it would be more on the scale of the OSR than Pathfinder, capturing a hardcore part of the market that was unlikely to change editions anyway.

 

[Knightfall]

FYI... The Piazza has a dedicated 4th Edition forum.

The Piazza • View forum - D&D 4th Edition

 

[Tallifer]

"At this point our plans are to continue to provide support to 4E characters in the character builder." - Mike Mearls.

It depends on how you read that quote from a seminar at the D&D Experience convention.

Myself, I am very unsettled by the words, "At this point."

 

[Pour]

"At this point our plans are to continue to provide support to 4E characters in the character builder." - Mike Mearls.

It depends on how you read that quote from a seminar at the D&D Experience convention.

Myself, I am very unsettled by the words, "At this point."

Honestly, out of all this I feel resolved. I know what I like, and for the first time in my D&D experience I'm not pining for the next iteration. I still see potential with what we have, and I know others do, too. If we lose the tools, we lose the tools. I'm actually surprised how vocal the 4e fans have been about that and many other things. Not being alone is a good feeling.

I definitely don't want warring, though, even though that seems inevitable. I thought they were kidding about the toxic atmosphere on the WotC forums until I browsed some of the threads. My hope is the 4e community not interesting in moving on steals itself, stops wasting time arguing and lamenting, and begins putting forth efforts to sustain and provide for the edition with community-based material. I know I am.

And I know there are others far more capable than me of doing so. They're spread across blogs and forums, or simply gaming right now, but they're there, trying to make sense of their situations as much as any of us, I imagine. I say start cooking 4e material and avoid the 5e mire- at least until a real playtest and the possibility of real feedback.