4e's [W] damage discrepancy

[Felon]

So, now we've got our first look at the playtest barbarian, and it's a striker. At least, it's labeled as "striker", but it's also been given hit points and armor in excess of what any of the PHB strikers get. OTOH, it doesn't have an ability analogous to cursing or sneak attack or quarry. Rather, it's a W-damage class that's going to max out its [W] as much as possible.

The Howling Strike power is basically the barb's version of Eldritch Blast in that it's a safe assumption that every barb will have it because it gives an extra d6 of damage with no strings attached. An equally safe assumption is that [W] will usually be at least a d12, if not more. Since it can be used with a charge, it effectively has some conditional range, and it' can milk a +1 to hit in the process.

I think there a lot of elements that will see revision, particularly the ability to nova and blow its wad in a single battle and put the game back into a 5-minute workday mode. But while it exists in its current form, it's the ultimate W-discrepancy power.

 

[Baumi]

So, now we've got our first look at the playtest barbarian, and it's a striker. At least, it's labeled as "striker", but it's also been given hit points and armor in excess of what any of the PHB strikers get.

Just a small Correction ... his Armor is much LOWER than that of the other Strikers (light Armor with no Dex/Int power-synergy, thats why he has more hitpoints), except when he uses a feat to buy Chain but even then he is only at the same level as an Rogue or Ranger but slower and with Skill-Penalties.

 

[Staffan]

I think there a lot of elements that will see revision, particularly the ability to nova and blow its wad in a single battle and put the game back into a 5-minute workday mode. But while it exists in its current form, it's the ultimate W-discrepancy power.

As explained in the Barbarian thread by lots of people, all classes have the ability to nova in a single battle. The Barbarian without Rage Strike doesn't, really, since his dailies all provide an encounter-long effect, and popping another cancels the one they have. So Rage Strike is a "patch" to this problem.

 

[Felon]

Just a small Correction ... his Armor is much LOWER than that of the other Strikers (light Armor with no Dex/Int power-synergy, thats why he has more hitpoints), except when he uses a feat to buy Chain but even then he is only at the same level as an Rogue or Ranger but slower and with Skill-Penalties.

I accept your correction with addendum: he's not much lower than all of the other strikers. He's lower than the strikers who have incentive to invest in Dex, but the warlock has pitiful armor--the lowest in the game easily due to a combination of crappy armor proficiency and not having Dex or Int as prime requisites--and Shadow Walk is just a limited patch for that.

 

[Felon]

As explained in the Barbarian thread by lots of people, all classes have the ability to nova in a single battle. The Barbarian without Rage Strike doesn't, really, since his dailies all provide an encounter-long effect, and popping another cancels the one they have. So Rage Strike is a "patch" to this problem.

What are you talking about? The barb's dailies are uber-damage 3[W] attacks that also, in addition, as an added extra benefit grant encounter-long effects. So, what's the "problem" that needs patching?

What is the nova for a warlock or wizard? Is that what we call it when they get to roll 3d6+stat damage using a daily?

Help me out here; the barbarian thread is, like, thirty pages long already.

 

[Gadget]

What are you talking about? The barb's dailies are uber-damage 3[W] attacks that also, in addition, as an added extra benefit grant encounter-long effects. So, what's the "problem" that needs patching?

The problem is that the Barb can't use more than one daily in an encounter without foregoing a major benefit of said daily(the ongoing effect). This way, they can keep the ongoing effect and still bust out a daily type attack if they really need to do so.

What is the nova for a warlock or wizard? Is that what we call it when they get to roll 3d6+stat damage using a daily?

The warlock, wizard, and every other PH class can 'go nova' by using all (or most) of their daily powers in a single encounter.

 

[Baumi]

I accept your correction with addendum: he's not much lower than all of the other strikers. He's lower than the strikers who have incentive to invest in Dex, but the warlock has pitiful armor--the lowest in the game easily due to a combination of crappy armor proficiency and not having Dex or Int as prime requisites--and Shadow Walk is just a limited patch for that.

Int is a very important secondary Attributes for a Warlock. I have seen a few Warlocks in my groups and every one of them has a high Int.

I even got a Starlock 4th Level Warlock with his 18 Int as his highest Stat (con 17, Cha 16, Half-Elf).

 

[Staffan]

What are you talking about? The barb's dailies are uber-damage 3[W] attacks that also, in addition, as an added extra benefit grant encounter-long effects. So, what's the "problem" that needs patching?

What is the nova for a warlock or wizard? Is that what we call it when they get to roll 3d6+stat damage using a daily?

Help me out here; the barbarian thread is, like, thirty pages long already.

The problem is that if the barbarian is in a rage and uses another rage, the buff from the new rage replaces the buff from the old one. So if you're fighting a nasty mummy, you want to use Flameheart Rage ASAP (dealing 5+Con fire damage to anyone who hits you with a melee attack). After a few rounds, you realize you need to pop another daily to hurt it, and let loose with Stone Bear Rage. But now that nifty extra fire damage is gone, and you're left with 3+Con resistance to all damage.

Rage Strike lets you use Stone Bear Rage for 5W damage (instead of 3W plus buff), and still keep the fire damage going.

 

[Felon]

The problem is that the Barb can't use more than one daily in an encounter without foregoing a major benefit of said daily(the ongoing effect). This way, they can keep the ongoing effect and still bust out a daily type attack if they really need to do so.

The warlock, wizard, and every other PH class can 'go nova' by using all (or most) of their daily powers in a single encounter.

The problem is that if the barbarian is in a rage and uses another rage, the buff from the new rage replaces the buff from the old one. So if you're fighting a nasty mummy, you want to use Flameheart Rage ASAP (dealing 5+Con fire damage to anyone who hits you with a melee attack). After a few rounds, you realize you need to pop another daily to hurt it, and let loose with Stone Bear Rage. But now that nifty extra fire damage is gone, and you're left with 3+Con resistance to all damage.

Rage Strike lets you use Stone Bear Rage for 5W damage (instead of 3W plus buff), and still keep the fire damage going.

You both use the word "problem" here, but really it's just a matter of seeing the glass as half-empty or half-full.

The beneficial effects from most class powers (like, say, the warlock's) only last until the start or end of the character's next turn. Considering that's the benchmark, the fact that the barb has the option of having the rage's benefits last an entire battle is a perk, not a problem, and certainly shouldn't prevent a barb from going nova any more than any other class.

Of course, this could be "fixed" just by making the benefits end as abruptly as everyone else's--they're certainly good enough that even a short duration would still be very beneficial--but I think it's probably a batter idea to appreciate how the glass is half-full.

 

[Felon]

Int is a very important secondary Attributes for a Warlock. I have seen a few Warlocks in my groups and every one of them has a high Int.

I even got a Starlock 4th Level Warlock with his 18 Int as his highest Stat (con 17, Cha 16, Half-Elf).

Emphasis on the word secondary. That usually amounts to one or two points of difference. That you have a player who put an 18 in his Int rather than the stats that directly influence his every attack and damage roll is, frankly, bizarre--at least if you're holding that out as an example of decision made for the sake of effectiveness (and if you're not, then it's rather a moot point).