The warlock in my party did. He ties for highest AC of the party when he shadow walks, and his diabolic grasps sling people 5 squares away!
4e's [W] damage discrepancy
- Thread starter Felon
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The warlock in my party did. He ties for highest AC of the party when he shadow walks, and his diabolic grasps sling people 5 squares away!
Not sure how he accomplishes the highest AC. At 3rd-level, I have a 14 Int, giving me a whopping 15 AC--the lowest in the party by two points. Had I an 18 Int, I'd still only have a 17, tying with the rogue and still far behind the defenders. Even shadow walk wouldn't catch me up to the sword-and-boarders. Maybe there's stuff I'm missing out on.
Sliding someone five squares sounds impressive, but is it really that much better than sliding someone, say, three squares? Sounds like that character could have had a 20 Con if he'd allocated his abilities scores differently. So, consider: is the extra little boost to a rider effect worth -2 to attack and damage on all of those infernal powers?
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It's great against solo monsters. Against a group of monsters... well, defenders tend not to be able to do so well at protecting you when you're out in the middle of them.
Cheers!
Well, even though this thread is about mechanics I'm gonna say that I dig the warlock's flavor most of all. My Eladrin Fey pact warlock was a super blast to play, and while I was outperformed as a striker by other classes (even non-strikers) I had a crapton more utility and was the most mobile PC at the table by far. In the game I am DMing our Infernal pact warlock moves every round to gain that concealment, is constantly maintaining his temp HP, and is very, very colorful. I do not deny that warlocks are the weakest striker, and that having d6 or d8 is less powerful, but almost every power has a status effect, and your class ability is very powerful and you will be using it almost every round, hopefully. I guess I don't see it as an oversight but as a design choice.
Jay
Jay
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
Indeed. Flanking a monster can and often does mean you get flanked in return.
Or, heck, in a 10' wide corridor, it's kind of hard to move around to do that.
Brad
The issue isn't so much that you're "wasting" part of the power. The issue is that you might be using a rage whose benefits are very useful in the fight you're in, and if you use another one those benefits go away.
jbear
First Post
Diabolic grasp is a nasty one, especially if your usig it to throw people into fires, down pit traps or pulling them off the roof. if they fail a saving throw a 10 ft fall is a 1d10 damage bonus and thats about the minimum for a good fall... and as you go u the levels pits get deeper and walls higher so the damage increases...
Maybe a bit off topic, but I like my party members warlock so... yeah anyway
... nothing more from me
Lord Pendragon
First Post
No doubt, but as others have pointed out, slides are hardly limited to warlocks.
Also, I just wanted to reiterate that the "others strikers have to attack AC" argument is false. Weapon Proficiency neatly nullifies any benefit a warlock gains from attacking a non-AC defense.
I'm not crying that the sky is falling or anything. But after 5 sessions of playing a warlock, it does indeed feel weaker than the other strikers. The warlock has lesser damage with comparable utility, lower defenses, and a far weaker feat selection. At second level I've run out of feats to take (!)
My DM has invited me to write some feats of my own to help buff up the class to where I think it should be. Being a DM myself, he trusts me to present workable options that he can then modify into something suitable. I'm holding off for the time being. I don't want to mess with a system before I'm positive there's an issue.
But at this point, the warlock is really looking underpowered in comparison.
While weapon proficiency balances out the difference between attacking AC and an average other defense, that's not the complete story. The warlock can often choose which other defense to attack (depending on power selection, of course). That big orc with an axe? He gets a Dreadful Word, hitting his Will. The scrawny orc with a bunch of bone fetishes? Have some Frigid Darkness, smack in the Fort.
jbear
First Post
Im not sure a thief or a ranger can pull someone down from a 25' high roof/wall and smash their bodies down onto the floor, or drag a guard 25' away through a portcullis door slamming him up against the bars so the fighter can strangle him to death and take his keys (just 2 situations that have a certain controller type feel to the warlock that neither the rogue nor the ranger have (although I havent looked at high level powers and so maybe I will be corrected on this one).
The Warlock in my group has 18 intelligence (tiefling) so when she uses shadow step she has a very good ac. She also gets a pretty constant HP buff from her infernal pact, does sweet damage and can stay out of combat with ranged attacks or get up close and use hellish rebuke to really do some mean damage if she is damaged in any way.
At 4th level she will most likely take the 'Sacrifice to Caiphon' feat offered in the Dragon 366 supplement that allows you to recharge a power you just failed by doing damage to yourself; so reliable encounter powers that can tirgger extra hellish rebuke damage if they fail... not bad I'd say.
As far as feats go there are 3 quite nice feats there in the star pact warlock supplement which are good for any warlock whatever there pact. If you only look at the feats in the PHB then I agree that their feats are on the light side.
I'm sure it will be quite a show when she arrives at paragon level and takes a second pact and stars teleporting around the battle field as well, say with Agathy's Armour on...
The explorer in our party (2 weapon) also does some mean damage, but often one of the two attacks often fails and often spends turns positioning. I havent seen a rogue in action yet so I can't even comment. I'm not saying one is better than the other or that they deal an equal amount of damage. They just seem to both have their pros and cons from where I'm standing.
Whatever the case may be I definitely wouldnt say the warlock is the weak link in my game.
