4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

[Upper_Krust]

U_K, can I highly recommend getting some playtesters, not just for the monsters, but more particularly for the larger size rules? This is very important to me, because I -love- the idea of fighting really huge things, and since 4e is focused on the actual gameplay, I want to be certain the gameplay is good and fun. I'm sure your regulars here would be happy to help, even just using lvl30 PCs.

Jumping the gun here Fieari mate. Let me get the rules at some sort of finished state before you go and start playtesting them.

I'm sure I'll have a playtesting stage (probably during the editing/art phase).

As for Mega, Giga, Tera (and so on) Monsters, at this point I am just trying to keep them as simple as possible, but it looks like the format will be akin to having two fighting planes, one being the monster itself and the other being the terrain (land, sky, underwater, space, exotic*)

*Fighting inside a star or black hole etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy paradox42 dude!

As one of the big winners in the Design An Epic Monster competition, I would also be quite likely to try conversions- even if only for my own use. But contributing towards something semi-official would of course be even better. So as the LOLCats say, This Is Relevant To My Interests.

Obviously thats the way of choice assuming it can be done.

 

[Alzrius]

To be honest I haven't decided yet.

Well, you still have plenty of time.

Okay, I shouldn't have laughed at that but I did anyway.

Thats certainly a possibility. But I still need to look into it more, which I haven't yet done.

Who else has done this to date? I remember you bringing up the idea about a month or so ago.

There are companies that fall into both camps thus far.

Kenzer Co. has published their 4E Kingdoms of Kalamar campaign setting under the fair use copyright provisions. So has Adamant Entertainment with their Venture 4th line of products. I'm also pretty sure that Dreamscarred Press's Phrenic Power: Power Shards product is published under that provision.

Likewise, Goodman Games published their 4E Dungeon Crawl Classics under the OGL - I've heard something about the newer ones being GSL, but I'm not sure about that, or about their other 4E products. However, I have the first 4E DCC, and it uses the OGL. Likewise, Kobold Quarterly #7 is an OGL product that has a 4E article (about centaurs) in it.

So there seem to be plenty of examples both ways.

That was (pre-GSL) always my plan. But isn't it a bit of a legal quagmire at the moment?

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that people taking steps to avoid the GSL with their 4E products aren't getting into any trouble for it.

 

[Rhuarc]

Hey UK,

just wanted to let you know that I definitely want to see the stats for whatever you want to share with us, even if it may not really be usable in the actual game later on. Reading it it's fun nevertheless

Keep it up!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there Alzrius matey!

I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that people taking steps to avoid the GSL with their 4E products aren't getting into any trouble for it.

Yes and I'd hate to be the first to get into trouble for it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey UK,

Howdy Rhuarc dude!

just wanted to let you know that I definitely want to see the stats for whatever you want to share with us, even if it may not really be usable in the actual game later on. Reading it it's fun nevertheless

Writing it is fun too, and its been a while since I thought that.

Keep it up!

Will do.

 

[Alzrius]

Yes and I'd hate to be the first to get into trouble for it.

I really don't understand this sentiment. There are bigger companies with more exposure going the 4E non-GSL route, and have been doing so for a while now, so that seems to be a good indicator that it's safe to do. Your company flies pretty low under the radar, as far as third-party products go, so I doubt WotC would even notice, let alone decide to pursue legal action.

Likewise, both options appear to be legally sound. I know that just the threat of a lawsuit would be enough, but I seriously doubt it'd ever come to that (and in that case, using the OGL seems safer anyway).

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I really don't understand this sentiment. There are bigger companies with more exposure going the 4E non-GSL route, and have been doing so for a while now, so that seems to be a good indicator that it's safe to do. Your company flies pretty low under the radar, as far as third-party products go, so I doubt WotC would even notice, let alone decide to pursue legal action.

Yes and my books are published by Mongoose, the second biggest (I think) d20 Publisher. So I have that consideration to make as well. I don't want to get someone else in trouble for my own mistakes/rashness.

Likewise, both options appear to be legally sound. I know that just the threat of a lawsuit would be enough, but I seriously doubt it'd ever come to that (and in that case, using the OGL seems safer anyway).

Okay, so what does 'going the OGL route' mean in terms of what I can or cannot use from 4E?

 

[Alzrius]

Yes and my books are published by Mongoose, the second biggest (I think) d20 Publisher. So I have that consideration to make as well. I don't want to get someone else in trouble for my own mistakes/rashness.

Well, there are other fairly big companies that are doing this, and they seem to be alright. Plus, don't you have some control over whether or not Mongoose prints your books? I thought you had at least a say of "I don't allow for this to be printed" if you wanted.

Beyond that, they're big boys over at Mongoose, so I wouldn't be too worried on their behalf.

Okay, so what does 'going the OGL route' mean in terms of what I can or cannot use from 4E?

It's killing me to say this...but I don't know.

To be sure, I have a very good idea of what that means. Using the Goodman Games 4E OGL DCC's as a template, you can apparently reprint 4E stats freely under the OGL, so long as you don't use any actual intellectual property of theirs. That is, you can make a "warlock" that uses an "eldritch blast" just fine, but don't have a "balhannoth."

I'd recommend dropping Joseph Goodman an email about this. Explain that you're a fellow publisher, and you're curious about his having used 4E stats under the OGL, and you'd appreciate any help/advice/pointers he could give in that regard. The OGC listing for the DCC even lists an email address: info AT goodman-games.com.

There's no harm in at least asking.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Alzrius mate!

Well, there are other fairly big companies that are doing this, and they seem to be alright. Plus, don't you have some control over whether or not Mongoose prints your books? I thought you had at least a say of "I don't allow for this to be printed" if you wanted.

Of course, but I meant if I went ahead and then they got into trouble.

Beyond that, they're big boys over at Mongoose, so I wouldn't be too worried on their behalf.

I'm sure they know their licensing issues better than me.

It's killing me to say this...but I don't know.

To be sure, I have a very good idea of what that means. Using the Goodman Games 4E OGL DCC's as a template, you can apparently reprint 4E stats freely under the OGL, so long as you don't use any actual intellectual property of theirs. That is, you can make a "warlock" that uses an "eldritch blast" just fine, but don't have a "balhannoth."

That makes sense. I was planning on doing stuff like this anyway. Who needs Zehir and Yuan-ti when you can have Set and 'Ophidians'.

I'd recommend dropping Joseph Goodman an email about this. Explain that you're a fellow publisher, and you're curious about his having used 4E stats under the OGL, and you'd appreciate any help/advice/pointers he could give in that regard. The OGC listing for the DCC even lists an email address: info AT goodman-games.com.

There's no harm in at least asking.

Good idea. I'll drop him an email sometime over the next few days. Thanks for that.