jmucchiello
Hero
Try this: http://shop.enworld.org/index.php?do=product&productid=1161Nightchilde-2 said:
4th Edition D&D
- Thread starter librarius_arcana
- Start date
Shalimar
First Post
I'd like to get rid of the magical walmart feel. It should not be a binary choice of how to survive combat, magic items/armor, dextrous combatants should be a valid choice as well without needing to load themselves down with magic loot.
Wants:
Defense Bonus: each class has a progression for defense bonus, wearing armor does grant a defense bonus, but its in place of your class defense bonus unless you have a feat like armor compatability that would allow you to stack them together (different compatibilities for light/medium/heavy). This allows for the more swashbuckler type fighters not needing to wear armor to avoid being subpar
Magic: make some sacred steak, kill the vancian magic, and go with a spell point system instead of having to memorize spells every day which can take a lot of time and is pretty much straight bookwork. Condense spells into much tighter lists removing the redundancy, make one cure spell with variable results based on how many spell points you spend on it. Remove the arcane/divine split, and simply have everything split into spheres of learning allowing spell casters to pick up spheres as a class ability. Magic Users would start with a few spheres of magic.
Class Abilities: Go with the ranger model of having multiple choices of class abilities, classes should give you options, not be straight jackets that force you into taking abilities that you don't want and don't suit the character. An example would be fighters having a low base defense bonus, but getting to choose between a higher defense bonus or armor compatibilty; or a 1st level sorceror choosing between an extra sphere of magic or a larger hit die. Also, most class abilities would be availible as feats, so people don't have to multiclass somewhere just to pick up an ability that fits their character when the rest of the other class doesn't.
Skills: Make skill points plentiful, a minimum of 6/level. Classes would have a small set of skills, but in addition each character would be able to choose 2 + Int Bonus skills to be permanent class skills based on the character's background.
Wants:
Defense Bonus: each class has a progression for defense bonus, wearing armor does grant a defense bonus, but its in place of your class defense bonus unless you have a feat like armor compatability that would allow you to stack them together (different compatibilities for light/medium/heavy). This allows for the more swashbuckler type fighters not needing to wear armor to avoid being subpar
Magic: make some sacred steak, kill the vancian magic, and go with a spell point system instead of having to memorize spells every day which can take a lot of time and is pretty much straight bookwork. Condense spells into much tighter lists removing the redundancy, make one cure spell with variable results based on how many spell points you spend on it. Remove the arcane/divine split, and simply have everything split into spheres of learning allowing spell casters to pick up spheres as a class ability. Magic Users would start with a few spheres of magic.
Class Abilities: Go with the ranger model of having multiple choices of class abilities, classes should give you options, not be straight jackets that force you into taking abilities that you don't want and don't suit the character. An example would be fighters having a low base defense bonus, but getting to choose between a higher defense bonus or armor compatibilty; or a 1st level sorceror choosing between an extra sphere of magic or a larger hit die. Also, most class abilities would be availible as feats, so people don't have to multiclass somewhere just to pick up an ability that fits their character when the rest of the other class doesn't.
Skills: Make skill points plentiful, a minimum of 6/level. Classes would have a small set of skills, but in addition each character would be able to choose 2 + Int Bonus skills to be permanent class skills based on the character's background.
Nightchilde-2
First Post
jmucchiello said:
Yeah, I've heard good things about that book, and it's one of the 3rd-party products to which I was referring.
However....it also refers to this from one of my earlier posts...
nightchilde-2 said:
I want D&D with those options, not D&D + 3rd party....
(Not that I'm saying Buy the Numbers isn't a good book & shouldn't be purchased; quite the contrary..however, I would like it as a base option of the D&D, as opposed to "D&D-like d20" game...)
painandgreed
First Post
If I designed 4E, the first thing I'd do is design a base game that was fairly simple with four base classes with few choices or variables. Then I'd design an advanced game that was the base game with all the various combat rules, choices, variables, and other classes. It would have much more options but the base game would still be perfectly viable and could be used for about 80% of all player's needs. This would offer an easy in to the game, allow those that wanted a simpler game to have one, and yet be perfectly compatible with the advanced game so you didn't get the feeling like your previous investments were useless. Overll, I'd probably go for simplifying the game so high level characters didn't take forever. possibly presenting base classes that had no choices but also allow other classes that did allow for custom feat selection.
Then:
I'd steepen the XP curve.
Return to objective XP for monsters and get rid of CR and ECL.
I'd develop a method for non-combat XP.
I'd get rid of paying XP for anything (instead going to a system that allowed failure, cost material, had possible risk, and probably would generate XP)
I'd include more stuff on non-combat RPing and develop systems for such things as trade and ruling lands.
Non-random minis sounds nice also.
Then:
I'd steepen the XP curve.
Return to objective XP for monsters and get rid of CR and ECL.
I'd develop a method for non-combat XP.
I'd get rid of paying XP for anything (instead going to a system that allowed failure, cost material, had possible risk, and probably would generate XP)
I'd include more stuff on non-combat RPing and develop systems for such things as trade and ruling lands.
Non-random minis sounds nice also.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
Other than magic item dependency, the first thing I'd do is cut hit points AT LEAST in half. Hacking 1,000 hit point dragons at 18th level is no fun. High level barbarians should have around 100 hit points, dragons around 200. Doubling (or tripling) both does nothing but draw combat out. The entire hit point scale needs to return to AD&D levels. If I knew how to do it without breaking the system, I'd do it myself for my games. You'd probably have to scale attacks back as well. Back to the oft maligned 3/2 which I happen to like.
Aus_Snow
First Post
Much like 3rd, with further refinement according to the experiences, observations and conclusions of writers, designers, playtesters, and consumers/gamers in general.librarius_arcana said:
More OGC, perhaps. A slightly more clear and coherent plan (I'm being rather presumptious here - sorry about that; it's opinion only) with regards to what gets produced/released, when.
See the response to the first question.
It would also have been interesting to add something like: "What would you prefer remains the same?" That isn't a criticism, by the way - just a passing thought.
DM-Rocco
Explorer
I would like to see less of more. That is to say, there are way to many feats and such out there. They overlap, too many do damn near the same thing. I am also tired of the constant stream of source books that come out. I feel for the pocket book of the man who buys all of them. Don't get me wrong, I love feats and such, but with so many rules, it slows the game down, it really does. I would like to see a new style that brought back some of the simplicity of the original AD&D game.
But that is just me
But that is just me
I like the idea of consolidated skills and level-dependent feats, coupled with more feats and few skills considered cross-class. I'd like to see the idea of feat chains scaled back - none in the core books at all, except maybe to illustrate how they should be balanced for expansion books.
I would like to see more of the base classes from other sources rolled into the main game, mainly the Knight, Duskblade, Spellthief, Warlock, Swashbuckler, Favored Soul and a spontaneous nature spellcaster that isn't the Spirit Shaman.
The touch attack to start most special combat actions should be dropped, but the rolls should be considerably harder for the attacker. They should never require more than two rolls per action (a third if damage is applied), much like an attack or spell only generally has two rolls. This would speed up play quite a bit for some of my group, and might encourage others to actually, y'know, use those options.
I'd like to see Prestige classes cut from 10 levels to 5 levels max, with prerequisites at each level. Other than that, I can't think of much they can do to improve the DMG. Of course, I thought the same about the 3.0 DMG, and I was wrong there. Maybe an appendix with "Monster Classes" and a menu of special abilities so that monster creation is easier for DMs.
Given the current evolution of the presentation of stats, I'm afraid of what a new MM will look like. The current stat blocks they're playing around with are easier to use than the condensed blocks, but harder than the 3.5 Monster Manual. If they go with the expanded blocks, I'm afraid we'll have a Hackmaster-like encyclopedia set. And no, I don't want loose-leaf monster folders, unless each set comes with a CD/DVD so damaged sheets can be easily replaced.
It'll never happen, but I'd like to see the core books expanded into Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, and two optional books: Spellcaster's Handbook, and D&D Campaign Guide. The first would reprint the rules on magic, spells, and crafting items from the PH and DMG. It could also expand on these, as well as providing full stat blocks for summoned monsters, familiars, and animal companions and detailed rules on polymorphing (if it still exists!). The second would be cover the Greyhawk campaign, with appendices to cover campaign-level rules: war, rulership, factions, etc.
Oh, and I'd like to see them come up with a new look-and-feel for every other company out there to mimic for the next few years. The sculpture covers were very striking in 2000, not so much now.
I'm ambivalent on the OGL/d20 thing. Keep it or don't. I've pretty much stopped using 3rd-party stuff over the last couple years, unless it's a game system all to itself.
I would like to see more of the base classes from other sources rolled into the main game, mainly the Knight, Duskblade, Spellthief, Warlock, Swashbuckler, Favored Soul and a spontaneous nature spellcaster that isn't the Spirit Shaman.
The touch attack to start most special combat actions should be dropped, but the rolls should be considerably harder for the attacker. They should never require more than two rolls per action (a third if damage is applied), much like an attack or spell only generally has two rolls. This would speed up play quite a bit for some of my group, and might encourage others to actually, y'know, use those options.
I'd like to see Prestige classes cut from 10 levels to 5 levels max, with prerequisites at each level. Other than that, I can't think of much they can do to improve the DMG. Of course, I thought the same about the 3.0 DMG, and I was wrong there. Maybe an appendix with "Monster Classes" and a menu of special abilities so that monster creation is easier for DMs.
Given the current evolution of the presentation of stats, I'm afraid of what a new MM will look like. The current stat blocks they're playing around with are easier to use than the condensed blocks, but harder than the 3.5 Monster Manual. If they go with the expanded blocks, I'm afraid we'll have a Hackmaster-like encyclopedia set. And no, I don't want loose-leaf monster folders, unless each set comes with a CD/DVD so damaged sheets can be easily replaced.
It'll never happen, but I'd like to see the core books expanded into Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, and two optional books: Spellcaster's Handbook, and D&D Campaign Guide. The first would reprint the rules on magic, spells, and crafting items from the PH and DMG. It could also expand on these, as well as providing full stat blocks for summoned monsters, familiars, and animal companions and detailed rules on polymorphing (if it still exists!). The second would be cover the Greyhawk campaign, with appendices to cover campaign-level rules: war, rulership, factions, etc.
Oh, and I'd like to see them come up with a new look-and-feel for every other company out there to mimic for the next few years. The sculpture covers were very striking in 2000, not so much now.
I'm ambivalent on the OGL/d20 thing. Keep it or don't. I've pretty much stopped using 3rd-party stuff over the last couple years, unless it's a game system all to itself.
Hussar
Legend
WayneLigon said:
Just out of curiousity, how old is this data? IIRC, this was from when 3e was first being released. If that's true, this is six or seven years out of date. But, either way, do you think in the next ten years that the percent of gamers who have computers will increase, stay the same or decrease?
My money is on the increase. If, six years ago, 2/3rds of DnD gamers had a home PC, well, I think I'd be seeing the writing on the wall and make my game for that group.
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