4th Edition D&D

[A'koss]

I think the biggest overall change I'd like to see is having the game more HL friendly. And by that I mean better balanced, no so initiative dependant, reduce the disparities between the classes, no more Save or Die/Nerf effects, rework the game so that death is less common, but more meaningful (rather than just a 10 min "in-game" delay).

I do like a lot of the ideas in Iron Heroes - stunts & combat challenges, their feat masteries and expanded skill use. I'd like to see a more compressed list of skills though and I certainly wouldn't be adverse to simplifying the advancement of skills either so that it could be done quicker and building higher level NPCs less a chore (or ignored in a lot of cases).

I'd definitely rework any "stat abomination" monsters so that none have spellcaster levels by default. A modest number of supernatural powers - fine, but spell lists on top of that (and potential "power up suites" because of it)... too much. Which brings me to...

Power up "buffing" spells - I hate them. I hate them because as the DM it means more time spent on building NPCs than actually working on the campaign. Now you have to have two sets of stats for your big magic bads, instead of just one.

Less reliance on magic items. This is one of the big reasons I like IH so much. Magic is good, magic is fun but only in moderation is it really "magical". I'd like to see more of the PC's power derived from the PC himself, than the gear he's carrying.

The classes do need some rebalancing - true but I trust WotC knows full well what needs to be done on thier next pass on the game.

 

[Droogie]

On to what i would like to see. Damage saves like in true 20. Feats that grow with your character like iron heroes. Magic thats anything other then spell slots per day.

And my top 3.

3# no more prestige classes.... ever, in any way shape or form.

2# A XP system with better defined rewards for meeting challenges other than killing something. Preferably something where achieving a goal is worth more then the beasties you killed along the way.

1# Fewer and more open ended classes. Like by compiling the lists of class features and letting players pick some of thier features and only have 3 base classes, like warrior, skill monkey, and magic user. Then instead of having 50 different classes to fit every niche you can just build the class you want all from one book.

You just described True20- why not play it? No waiting involved for you.

As for me, I'd just like them to keep streamlining and refining. I'd like to see consolidated skills like everyone else, and maybe an end to cross-class skills. Although some players like to see more default feats (one every other level in one of my games) I shudder at the thought- I'd want to see the changes decrease the workload rather than increase it. Hit points and damage dice are a sacred cow that I'm not ready to slaughter- its just lots of fun to role the bones.

I'd like to see vancian slot-magic die too, but I doubt WotC will have the yarbles to take it that far. For skill-based magic, I'll just play some true20 now-and -then.

 

[Hussar]

What I would like to see in 4e.

Bring gaming into the 21st century. I don't think it's a huge assumption to say that the majority of DM's out there use computers when developing material. I would also hazard a guess that the majority of gamers have access to a computer. Why not cater to that?

I would rerelease the core 3 (of course), fully errata'd and tweaked and with each book, I would included a CD with the following:

Players Handbook

• Character generator that is capable of saving character sheets as both pdf and html.
• A gaming client a la OpenRPG or Fantasy Grounds for online play supported by WOTC
• Character picture creator

Dungeon Master's Guide

• A campaign suite capable of managing all levels - both micro and macro of campaign design
• An adventure creator package that allows you to bring in all SRD monsters as stat blocks
• A graphics program a la Dunjinni
• A gaming client a la Fantasy Grounds or OpenRPG
• An NPC creator

Monster Manual

• All monsters on CD.
• All monster images, printable as 1" scale counters
• A monster editor that allows me to advance, add templates, add class levels, whatever to any monster
• A monster creator pack that allows me to create new monsters and gives me the estimated CR and LA

All programs would be fully compatible with each other, allowing you to create new monsters and easily port them into the DM suite for adventure creation. All new books would include a CD with all pertinent information to be added to the Core 3. Errata would be issued online as patches for the Core 3 program. All elements would be locally controlled, meaning that rules could be changed/overruled by the user.

To me, this would be the best 4e I could want.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Moderator:

Okay, folks, I know some of you don't like 4e threads. That does not give you an excuse to be anything less than respectful in them. I don't want to see any more name-calling (and "troll" qualifies), or other forms of threadcrapping in here. If you don't like the discussion here, go read another thread.

The sweet smell of sanity, Thank you dude

 

[librarius_arcana]

The D&D 4E I would like to see would move towards Modern d20 with a mix of "Buy the Numbers". 4 base classes with lots of customization options using a modified point buy system.

I'd buy that,

 

[librarius_arcana]

But Hussar, you could make easy copies of cds, lots n lots of peeps just wouldn't need to buy their book then,

but.....it would be kinda cool to have some sort of formatable online version for private play

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Exalted or Earthdawn.

Okay, less snarky answer....

Primarily, I'd like to see a completely overhauled character generation and experience system, something without levels. Something along the lines of "I want to raise my attack bonus, so I'll spend XP to do so." As for character generation, something completely point-based, similar to Mutants & Masterminds (albeit on a much less building-destroying scale).

Also, bye-bye gold piece system. Give me an abstract wealth system that doesn't require me to know exactly what each creature and NPC has in their treasure horde. And definitely NOT the Wealth system from d20 Modern/True20. Something more along the lines of White Wolf's "Resources" system.

A skill-based magic system.

And, I know, all of these things can be found through the OGL, but if you hammer enough stuff into D&D, you're no longer really playing D&D anymore.

Also...

Non-randomized minis, but with the same decent price as the current D&D minis. Also, I'd like to see all of the MM creatures released before any other monsters.

 

[librarius_arcana]

You just described True20- why not play it? No waiting involved for you.

As for me, I'd just like them to keep streamlining and refining. I'd like to see consolidated skills like everyone else, and maybe an end to cross-class skills. Although some players like to see more default feats (one every other level in one of my games) I shudder at the thought- I'd want to see the changes decrease the workload rather than increase it. Hit points and damage dice are a sacred cow that I'm not ready to slaughter- its just lots of fun to role the bones.

I'd like to see vancian slot-magic die too, but I doubt WotC will have the yarbles to take it that far. For skill-based magic, I'll just play some true20 now-and -then.

I agree with most of that, I think cross classskills limit in a bad way what a player wants for their character, and tend to force the cookie cutter type characters

again the workload, this is the thing I think will be the main focus of the new edition, no body likes the work load and they know it,

thing I expect they will never lose is the class's, levels, saves, hit points, the magic systems and BAB ( )

I would really like to see a more skill based magic system too, and plan to have such in my game,

True 20 is a great game, very clever

 

[librarius_arcana]

Primarily, I'd like to see a completely overhauled character generation and experience system, something without levels. Something along the lines of "I want to raise my attack bonus, so I'll spend XP to do so." As for character generation, something completely point-based, similar to Mutants & Masterminds (albeit on a much less building-destroying scale).

Also, bye-bye gold piece system. Give me an abstract wealth system that doesn't require me to know exactly what each creature and NPC has in their treasure horde. And definitely NOT the Wealth system from d20 Modern/True20. Something more along the lines of White Wolf's "Resources" system.

A skill-based magic system.

I'd also buy that, you know I don't know why they just don't put all these things in another volume of Unearthed Arcanca, it would sell like hot cakes

 

[Hussar]

Dude, check any P2P system out there. The books are there in pdf format before my version of Amazon has the physical book.

Besides, the core three are already online (mostly) for free. Considering 99% of the crunchy bits are OGL, piracy isn't really an issue in this case. Sites like the Hypertext SRD already provide most of the core three in the format I'm talking about.

The way I look at it, the core three are a toolbox for developing a campaign. The PHB is the toolkit for players and the DMG/MM are for the DM with some cross pollination between the two. Why not take it a step further and ACTUALLY give people the tools?

IMO, the biggest complaint about 3rd ed is the prep time. It's the game "everyone wants to play and no one wants to run". Well, these tools would greatly lower the bar for running games, meaning that there would hopefully be more DM's out there. Tying everything into an online medium gets rid of the limitation of geography which holds back many players. Not only that, but an online medium means that it is MUCH easier to get a group together at a particular time.

To me, this would be the best step DnD could take. I'm not terribly interested in reinventing the wheel with 4e. I'm not. I'm perfectly happy with the mechanics as they stand. I appreciate that other people feel differently, and that's fine. To me, that's what drives the D20 market, and more power to them. I want to see DnD take a few steps to maintain its dominance.

I don't believe that emulating other systems is the way to do that. Making DnD more like True20, or MM, or C&C or whatever isn't the way to keep DnD alive. If it were, those other systems would find a much larger audience than they see today.

To me, the biggest impediments to gaming are geography and prep time. Going online and giving tools (most of which ALREADY exist in some form) to DM's to reduce prep time are the way to go.

2e to 3e saw radical changes in the system. There was a reason for that. The perception that the 2e (and to some extent 1e) systems were hodgepodge and heavily reliant on DM's (I'm not saying that's true, just that was the perception) created a system which took a much stronger hold on the rules responsiblity onto the system. Going back to a DM reliant system is not a step forward IMO. I have no problems as a DM letting go of the reins and letting the car drive itself, which lets me focus on gaming more than the game.

So, my version of 4e would be 3.5 errata'd and include the toolset above.