4th EDITION

[Sienna_Rose]

Free form and loosely based on D&D rules at this point in time, seem to have collided because of thier direct differences. Its been admitted not everyone on this site uses d-n-d rules. So why not cut out the loosely based on D-n-D and just leave it at free form play so anything and everything can be allowed?

It's not just D&D rules, it's the setting itself. Regardless of what dice are rolled, what stats are looked at, the town is paranoid. From a long history of wars, etc.

It has been pointed out that disguises would be difficult - not impossible. Yeah, a cloak won't hide the tail and horns. But, a shape shifting spell or an illusion (if careful not to hit anything with the tail) would. More thought will have to be put into it.

As far as having a neutral ground where the various races can show up - that's because there is an understanding with the guard that Siani is responsible for what happens in the tavern. She'll take care of the trouble makers. Townsfolk, in general, don't know the races that show up in there, or there would be big trouble. And, in order to keep that agreement up, the patrons of the tavern can't flaunt what they are where the townsfolk can see them. Thus the disguises - magical or otherwise.

 

[Magi_Siani]

The Greyhawk Setting Rules will not change. No exceptions for 4e.

There are no plans to produce any more material for Greyhawk so in effect it is in stasis, which suits me fine.

I absolutely detest 4e and that will do on that subject.

Siani does like getting B wet, naturally. I believe she's said so a time or two in the past.

Magi Siani

 

[tahlan]

Forgotten realms is spose to jump some 200 years into the future, so it made be hard to update, as many play humans without such longevity and will not wish to pretend they were in this time all along, or end a storyline because of an update in rules.

 

[Elf_Ariel]

Okay...I haven't read 4E, so probably dont deserve to have an oppinion. But as you all know...I have them anyways. Suffer and die!

But...okay, so the rules have changed. Logically the rules apply to characters...unless someone changes the 'setting' rules. Now forgive me if I'm wrong (it happens a lot)...but so far as I can tell 4E changes are character specific changes aren't they? With the exception of what Tahlan's suggestion of course. Which I wouldn't know about, me and FR dont get along!

I guess, the point I'm trying to make is...I'll use a car analogy...our settings are like roads. We all should get the same map. On some roads, all cars can drive...whereas on others...only the super fast ones can go. No one in their right mind drives at 70kph in a 100kph zone... If you cant -fit- in...dont drive there! No one is suddenly going to change it from 100kph to 70kph just because you'd like them to.

 

[Infernal Scribe]

Greyhawk will most likely get updated a few years from now, like the other setting books when they get around to it for 4e. But like Siani said, the CRT won't change due to 3rd edition, 3.5 edition, Ars magica, 4th edition, or World of Darkness edition or any other type of edition until she feels like she wants to update the setting.

To introduce tieflings is easy enough to a xenophobic setting. They're going to be pariah and freaks. Shunned, insulted, tossed rotten veggies at, and probably live down the river in a small hut and raised by parents who either don't want them, are mad, or generally going to have a hard life. They're child hoods are going to be hellish (no pun intended). If your going to go with the 4e idea on their other worldly origins, it is easy enough to do some research on the Greyhawk setting to note that there are a few fallen evil kingdoms in the past that probably dealt with devils (Vecna, Invid, etc).

As for Dragonborn, the people of the region are going to have problems due to mistaking these people for lizard folk. Which are abundant in the swamps surrounding the area. But if you want to play 4e Dragonborn, it could be explained to a massive migration from the West, emissaries from the Blood Isles of Io, or etc.

But if you plan to play any of these races, the setting of CRT states you need a disguise. So invest in those hats of disguise, spells of disguise, or the engimatic black knight that never takes off their helmet of King Arthur Lore.

The FR rooms don't need to change, unless Nashira feels like she wants to update the room. But with all the planar activity, its easy enough to play planar travelers from an alternative FR (cue 50s creepy music and the quote "I come from the Future!") and is now trapped in the past. And Waterdeep is a major trade city that, depending on what Ward your in, a Dragonborn and a Tiefling will probably just earn you a odd look.

As for Sigil, anything is open game.

And on the side, I like 4e. It feels like 3e when it first came out. And like 3e when it first came out, requires alot of House Rules and things you cannibalize from the previous edition. Until the splat books come out and spoil you with more options. (2e - race and kit books. 3e - races and class books. And the trend continues further in 4e).

 

[Lurking Shadow]

Ok now that i see everything clearer id like to say that this has been enlightening for me, considering not much gets through my thick teenage skull.
that aside i'd like to apologise to everyone for causeing a commotion over something as simple as tieflings and dragonborn. if you need me i'll be around, just not here.
thanks

P.s to Tharivious:
Everyone IS supposed to have fun they just need to follow the rules while doing so.
Sorry im done now ^_^

 

[Xen_Tiras]

Personally, I really like 4E, but I see no reason why any of the settings here should be updated. They're all pretty established in our minds, and I think it would be nice if they stayed that way.

Also, I find it funny that everyone mentions the dragonborn and tieflings, but never the eladrin. We lose the gnome and the half-orc (Not really lost, just moved to the MM and still playable) and what do we get? Another elf? Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[tahlan]

I Was upset with losing some of the races and classes, but I like the Eladrin. I also like many of the changes and simplifications of 4e.

 

[Magi_Nashira]

The FR rooms don't need to change, unless Nashira feels like she wants to update the room. But with all the planar activity, its easy enough to play planar travelers from an alternative FR (cue 50s creepy music and the quote "I come from the Future!") and is now trapped in the past. And Waterdeep is a major trade city that, depending on what Ward your in, a Dragonborn and a Tiefling will probably just earn you a odd look.

I haven't had a chance to sit down and go through my books as of yet, but I am of the opinion of keeping the Rotunda room and setting the way that it is, and not updating. If that changes I will inform.

 

[Tharivious]

Also, I find it funny that everyone mentions the dragonborn and tieflings, but never the eladrin. We lose the gnome and the half-orc (Not really lost, just moved to the MM and still playable) and what do we get? Another elf? Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Probably because it's exactly that - just another elf. 3.5 had five elves between the PhB and Monster Manual (plus another 2 from Forgotten Realms, and about 8 more from Dragon magazine), having two (three counting the partial drow entry, which is probably all that we're getting on them based on what happens in Ascendence of the Last... dark elves as a separate race, good job 4E Realms!) isn't quite that bad. What's outlandish about the dragonborn and the tiefling is that they are the races that belong in the Monster Manual and not the initial Player's Handbook, as they are intended to be rare and uncommon as heroes, and look like the sort of monsters adventurers are expected to kill in their careers. Splitting the elves into two races and dropping the excess in the Monster Manual and Forgotten Realms... decent enough trade.

What irks me more is the (in my opinion) disgusting effect on the planes that 4E has had regarding all of the outsider races (yes, it's flavour... except for what they hardwired into the rules, which was quite a lot of it) (devils, demons, angels, eladrin, archons, and yes, even the slaad were all brutalized, let alone what happened to the yugoloths), and the egregious mistakes in the alignment system (ie, keeping it, but removing the four alignments the designers couldn't walk down the hall and talk to one of the 3E development leads about for five minutes to make sense of, and merging NG/CG, NE/LE, LG/LN, and CE/CN in the process). Worse yet, they referenced Sigil as being part of the cosmology of the core setting, which means I'm sure it's going to find itself getting the 4E treatment (a brutal beating followed by having its lunch money stolen) before too long, and I'm sure we can expect a level 36 Lady of Pain by the time Monster Manual III goes to print. Could be an exaggeration, but at the rate WotC is going, it's probably not too far off from the reality.