4th edition's relative rules complexity

[Majoru Oakheart]

4e will fix it by making every character overwhelmingly complex at ALL levels. It looks like there is no more "I attack", its been replaced with "I attack, using this bonus from that other PCs attack, at this bonus from the targets state, using this stat and causing these two conditions unless this threshold is passed, in which case its these two conditions and I get benefit Y or I can choose X and pass benefit Z on to character B, but if the target passes threshold N then he gets to attack my reflex defense in which case I use ability E and........................"

Yeah, complexity it wayyy down in 4e.

I think it's closer to:
"I attack with Downward Sword Spiral of Doom. It's strength vs ac. I roll 26 to hit and do 18 points of damage and knock him prone. Next."
"The enemy attacks you and hits your Reflex with a roll of 22 for 10 damage and you are immobilized by sticky webs."
"The Paladin smites the enemy, hitting AC 24 for 20 damage and heals the fighter for 15."
"That knocks the enemy into bloodied state so he teleports over here."

It's not that difficult to keep track of, really.

Compared to the similar situation in 3.5, which is likely:
Fighter: "I attack with power attack 4, which is...22 to hit for....let my just figure out...an extra 8 damage....26 damage."
DM: "The enemy decides to use a spell-like ability...umm...web....over there"
Player 1: "Keep in mind that web has to be anchored to two surfaces, there aren't two for it to be anchored to there."
DM: "Right, I forgot about that part of web. Fine, it does it over here instead."
Player 2: "Is he casting on the defensive? Cause if not, I'm taking my AOO."
DM: "Sorry, I forgot t say he was, but he is. *rolls* Ok, he made it."
DM: "Now...everyone make reflex saves."
*all players roll*
*all players yell out their totals at the same time, as usual*
DM: "Whoa...anyone who gets over...17 makes it."
Player 3: "I fail."
Player 4: "Me too."
DM: "Alright...let me just look up web since I can't remember exactly what effects it has."
*looks up the spell, spends a couple of minutes reading it, then rereading it as it's web and confusing*
DM: "Ok, so you are entangled if you failed. Plus, you'll have to make strength checks now to move and you can move a different distance depending on how high you roll."
*and so on*

Sure, it means people are going to have to memorize what immobilize and such does, but if they stay common amongst all attacks that do them and there aren't TOO many states, then it should be easy. Especially if immobilize is something like "each round the enemy makes another attack against you and if it hits, you cannot move out of your squares" and not "You can attempt a strength check and for ever 5 it exceeds 15, you can move 5 feet." which is a lot harder to remember."

 

[Particle_Man]

One simple procedure would be if they either has all bonuses stack or all bonuses overlap.