D&D General 5.5 and making the game easier for players and harder for DMs

[DEFCON 1]

For some folks the stakes are too high to back down for the soul of D&D.

To paraphrase the theme to Mystery Science Theater 3000... "Just repeat to yourself It's just a game, I should really just relax."

 

[Micah Sweet]

And yet, that is universally praised if it is done to limit classes and species because of "lore"...

Yup. Two very different things.

 

[overgeeked]

I don't disagree with a thing you said. Which is exactly why I do my best to play with improvisors and theater people so that we are all on the same page and it's not something I ever really need to worry about.

But if someone is stuck playing with "gamers" and thus have to play in a style they themselves wouldn't prefer... it's not surprising that they'd be irritated all the time. Either because the rules are written to help the "gamers" game and thus the "improvisors" are stuck... or because the the rules are written to let the "improvisors" improvise easier and thus the gamers wonder why they just can't play the intricate and tactically challenging dice game they wanted and are constantly annoyed and complaining, which the DM then has to try and deal with.

Really... in my opinion the biggest problem is that people just do not or cannot find the right game for them * and * the right group of players for them for that game. Instead they just throw up their hands and take whatever gets handed to them because that's the route of easiest travel... but all the while being annoyed about it as they travel it. Don't like parts of 5E but also don't want to change those parts into something (general) you would prefer because it would involve having to explain (general) yourself to any of your potential players and you just don't want to deal with it? Then best of luck playing a game you don't like because you don't want to work any harder to get something different.

There are heaps of improvisers in the Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance (FKR), Old School Renaissance (OSR), and New School Renaissance (NSR) scenes. Just watch your step in those spaces. For all the typical OSR reasons.

 

[Minigiant]

First time I had 2 5E players try OSR their comments where basically “it feels like what I do matters”.

Because if you screw up, you die.

Doesn't mean your PC has a lot of options. You just have little margin of error.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There are heaps of improvisers in the Free Kriegsspiel Renaissance (FKR), Old School Renaissance (OSR), and New School Renaissance (NSR) scenes. Just watch your step in those spaces. For all the typical OSR reasons.

One of the positives though when playing with improvisors is that I've seen them tend to be more accepting of rules changes that someone makes, because the concept of 'Yes, And' is so ingrained in them. So if something's different than expected? They just can easily roll with it and follow along. Whereas gamers seem to want parameters established so they can tactically work out how best to operate and succeed within those barriers that are up.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Of course. The D&D designers are creating D&D games that they want to play. But they also individually have their own bits and pieces they prefer, and thus compromise within WotC comes about when designing rules as well. Not a single designer at WotC is getting the game they 100% want. That's why people like Monte Cook wrote and released his Arcana Unearthed book so soon after finishing the writing on 3E and leaving the company, and @mearls is right now writing up all kinds of 5E material that he wants to see. Not to mention that Chris Perkins has gone all-in when he was on the teams working on 3E, 4E and 5E, because that was his job. He might find any one of those three editions to be more his speed, but when it comes down to working on each of those editions, he joins the giant compromise team that tries to work together to create a D&D on the whole that will work fairly-to-pretty well for more people.

But it should not be a surprise that there are people who don't fall within that circle of what is this designer-compromising edition of Dungeons & Dragons. There's no way it would ever be able to encircle everyone. But what kills me is all the people who KNOW they don't fall within the circle, specifically STATE they don't fall within the circle... and yet REFUSE TO LEAVE the outskirts of the circle wishing hope-against-hope to get themselves back in. And then spend all this time bemoaning that they are outside the circle and sling barbs and insults at everyone inside who made the circle because their work did not include them. That's just sad.

The issue, as always is that the circle moved and left them outside of it. The fact that that movement brought other people into the circle doesn't do anything for those left behind.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Because if you screw up, you die.

Doesn't mean your PC has a lot of options. You just have little margin of error.

And he felt powerful. More powerful than he felt in 5E despite all the HP and powers

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sounds like a lot of people playing D&D just don’t like D&D.

D&D by WotC's current definition, yes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

To paraphrase the theme to Mystery Science Theater 3000... "Just repeat to yourself It's just a game, I should really just relax."

Which works great if and only if that game isn't really a big deal to you.

 

[DEFCON 1]

5E. As much as folks like to complain on here, its really only a drop in the fandom. I think the design is sort of a hodgepodge of all the ideas over the decades and editions. Its ended up as everybody's second favorite edition. I think its slowly becoming the entry point, and then if its not enough or too frustrating, you move onto another RPG. Which is exactly what I think D&D needs to be. Not cutting edge, with a spalsh of tradition, and just a little something for everybody. If all the folks willing to talk all day online about the game a re little unsatisfied, but overall enjoy it, its in the right place for the legions that just dont care that deeply about the design.

I've always thought the meme-phrase of "5E is everybody's second-favorite edition of D&D" to be right on the money.

It's the best compromise for the most people who do not have the time, energy, or wherewithall to put in the effort to get their favorite D&D onto the table with the handful of players needed who agree with them.