D&D 5E (2024) 5.5 Fighter Best Eince 2E

Okay but is it really better than the 4E Weapon Master? Because that remains the gold standard of Fighters IMO.

RE was better defender than fighter. Death is still best debuff. Every other edition its been a striker/tank (or both). Slowing the game down to make good defender doesn't make a good fighter imho.

2E one ive seen it solo dragons, lich, tough demons one after the other in 3 rounds.

5.5 one different meta but yeah theyre really good.
 

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Yeah the problem is that Indomitable was kind of... situational before.

If you flubbed a good Fighter save like STR then sure, you could roll it again and probably succede. But if you're targeted at a save you're already bad at, then rolling again probably won't help you that much. Especially in the the endgame when enemy save DCs can be as high as 27.

(And you can still fail even with a +20 when save DCs are that high.)
 


Can't imagine how it can be too awesome. The fighter needs to be able to shrug off magic.

Rogue should have gotten slippery mind earlier.

We have tge same opinion. Iirc Mearls said classes should have weakness built it.

Indomitable may be to good but eh.

In seeing a lot more lucky feat being used. Low opportunity cost as origin feat.
 

RE was better defender than fighter. Death is still best debuff. Every other edition its been a striker/tank (or both). Slowing the game down to make good defender doesn't make a good fighter imho.

2E one ive seen it solo dragons, lich, tough demons one after the other in 3 rounds.

5.5 one different meta but yeah theyre really good.
The 4e fighter had a support problem; there was too much content for it. So you could pick content that leaned striker, and end up a better striker than most strikers, while keeping your defender features.

What made the 4e fighter feel awesome was that you shaped and bullied the battlefield. The monsters would be caught in a catch-22; either focus on you (and you'd be insanely tough), or try to ignore you (which you'd punish), all the while you'd be dropping foes.

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The 5e (24 or 14) fighter makes it feel like the monsters are attacking you out of some kind of out of game treaty where the DM ignores the fragile back-line. A non-ranged 5e fighter also feels like the foes are only in melee range because the DM is nice to you.

I've played 5e games where enemies didn't charge into melee - either did a fighting withdraw, or had no reason to - and melee types just got to go "durr" unless they where built with insane mobility. Rogues get bonus action dash, monks get movement speed and dash, barbarians got movement speed and +50% speed on rage turn, paladins got a steed, Rangers have some spells (and are probably ranged), spellcasters spellcast... Fighters just have to use ranged weapons, and if they are str-based they have poor range on their ranged weapons.

Doing damage when in melee only matters if foes let you into melee range. Sentinel feat is one of the few ways a Fighter can lock a foe down in melee range...
 

The 4e fighter had a support problem; there was too much content for it. So you could pick content that leaned striker, and end up a better striker than most strikers, while keeping your defender features.

What made the 4e fighter feel awesome was that you shaped and bullied the battlefield. The monsters would be caught in a catch-22; either focus on you (and you'd be insanely tough), or try to ignore you (which you'd punish), all the while you'd be dropping foes.

---

The 5e (24 or 14) fighter makes it feel like the monsters are attacking you out of some kind of out of game treaty where the DM ignores the fragile back-line. A non-ranged 5e fighter also feels like the foes are only in melee range because the DM is nice to you.

I've played 5e games where enemies didn't charge into melee - either did a fighting withdraw, or had no reason to - and melee types just got to go "durr" unless they where built with insane mobility. Rogues get bonus action dash, monks get movement speed and dash, barbarians got movement speed and +50% speed on rage turn, paladins got a steed, Rangers have some spells (and are probably ranged), spellcasters spellcast... Fighters just have to use ranged weapons, and if they are str-based they have poor range on their ranged weapons.

Doing damage when in melee only matters if foes let you into melee range. Sentinel feat is one of the few ways a Fighter can lock a foe down in melee range...

Retreat? Dont need to retreat if its dead. 5E fighters also make good archers.

Most dungeons are small as well so range is rarely a problem.

RAW 5E essentially easy mode much like 4E. 4Es even easier though. Low damage from monsters + healing surge. 5.5 ones hit hard at least.

Have you seen a 5.5 fighter in action?
 

Retreat? Dont need to retreat if its dead. 5E fighters also make good archers.
A strength-based fighter makes a bad archer. The existence of fighter-archers doesn't change this.

Most dungeons are small as well so range is rarely a problem.
This is a "DM arranges things so your fighter isn't incompetent" solution.

The battlefields I'm used to in most games are often outdoors, usually large, enemies are usually not "will fight to death" but have some goal that the players oppose (which can be "kill the players and loot their corpses"; but they value their lives).

Retreat is common: ambushes, traps, falling back, using summons as disposable threats, etc.

PCs rarely get to pick where they fight. If traveling, it will be an ambush by predator-equivalents (or stumbling on a lair or whatever). If targeted, will often be attacking a modestly fortified position (only if we get very lucky can we get ahead of a foe we want to attack and ambush them while they are traveling).

Mobility is highly valuable, as is range. For an archer-fighter this isn't a problem, but for a strength-fighter it makes things hard as thrown weapons are short range.

Rogues are dex-based, and have bonus action hide and dash; they can range-fight reasponable. Rangers are almost all archers; if melee, they tend to be dex-based so secondary archers. Monks and Barbarians have movement speed buffs. Spellcasters are all ranged. Which leaves Paladins and Fighters; Paladins get a mount at level 5, a movement speed buff.

Strength-Fighters get a 30 foot move speed, a second wind 15 foot dash, can burn a key combat boost (action surge) to run an extra 30 feet. They do get high athletics to jump over terrain? But their mobility sort of sucks, and their ranged attacks have disadvantage beyond like 20 feet.

If they can close with the enemy they can use feats like Sentinel and trips and the like to become a bit sticky; but not super sticky (far less sticky than a 4e fighter).

RAW 5E essentially easy mode much like 4E. 4Es even easier though. Low damage from monsters + healing surge. 5.5 ones hit hard at least.
Games of 4e I actually played usually boosted monster damage significantly; the designers did it, with MM3 and later monsters having twice as much damage at higher levels (going from something like 5+level/2 average DPR to 7+level damage), and DMs who scaled monsters themselves (easiest was replaced monster damage with "highest damage on rolls", adding rolled damage on crits, or just doubling damage dice), or did both (took MM3 and did max damage).

This had a larger impact at tier 3 (level 20+); at level 5 monsters did 8 vs 12 damage (50%), by level 20 it was like 15 vs 27 damage (almost 2x); by the time you reached tier 3 in 4e (which takes 2+ years of regular gaming), hopefully the DM knew what they had to do to scale monsters for the party.

I find 5e works similarly; the DM works out how to scale the foes (at least number, HP, damage) to make a fun fight.

Have you seen a 5.5 fighter in action?
I've played with some 5.5 rules mixed in with 5.0 rules, but not a pure 5.5 table. It was a multiclass fighter (champion)/barbarian at around 10th level.

Maybe there is something secret in the 5.5 fighter that we aren't yet using I'm not seeing.
 

Nah. I have no particular opinion on the '24 fighter, but the 4e fighter is absolutely the high point of fighter design. It has a strong argument to be the best-designed class in the entire edition.
 

Wait why? Indomitable is awesome now.
Yeah as opposed to something that most of the time was useless. If you're bad at a saving throw, Indomitable won't help you. And it being 1/day as a high level ability?

I suppose there's a school of thought that wants classes to have weak points or doesn't want to see "good at most saves" be a Monk/Paladin thing, and only wants classes to reinforce their strong suits.

In that case, let me re-introduce a 3.5 mechanic.

Stalwart: when you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Constitution saving throw to take only half damage, you instead take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, and only half damage if you fail.
 

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