5 foot step + charge?

dcollins said:
Zenon: I'm not sure how you can argue that a person can move 5' and then partial charge. That seems pretty clearly against the rules, since the only movement you get is the charge itself (the action allows no other movement in the action, 5' or otherwise).

If you check my write-up, you'll notice the phrase "subject to DM approval".

IMC, if you were moving down a hallway, took one MEA then held a Ready action to charge anyone who came out of a side passage, I'd allow it (shrug) but that's just me. all movement in the round would be in a straight line. It's one of those special cases that's normally not allowed but I, as the DM in that case, could be persuaded to let it happen because it's logical in that situation.

I'm not arguing for either side, just pointing things out.
 

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Zenon said:
If a character just moves 5' (not a "Combat Move"), he can then take a "partial charge", subject to DM approval. Partial Charge is only normally used when you only have a partial action, such as from a suprise round or a Ready action.
Though you can do anything with DM approval, the use of terminology here is incorrect. The results, however, would be the same so long as the 5ft "move" and then the "partial charge" were all along the same line.

Really though, to be correct, you should just tell your players that they can charge, which means that they can move up to twice their movement rate in a straight line, and attack. This is what would cover the situation above. Five feet plus a normal move (all in a straight line) is a plain old charge, not a 5ft move plus a partial charge.

Not a big deal, but it's dangerous (or maybe just sloppy) to act like a normal round is composed of a move plus a partial action.
 

The only thing I'm aware of that changes that is the feat Fleet of Foot from Song & Silence. With the feat (which has prereqs of a high dex, another feat and less than a certain class of armor [description of feat made ambiguous from copyright purposes], you can make up to a single direction change of 90 degrees or less during a charge.

Fleet of Foot [General]
You run so nimbly that you can turn corners without losing momentum
Prerequisites: Dex 15+, Run
Benfit: When running or charging, you can make a single direction change of 90 degrees or less. You can't use this feat while wearing medium or heavy armor, or if you're carrying a load heavier than light.
Normal: Without this feat, you can run or charge only in a straight line.

Damn the copyrights!!! :D

Actually, Posting of an item for discussion purposes is considered fair use, and quite legal.
 

Ki Ryn said:
Though you can do anything with DM approval, the use of terminology here is incorrect. The results, however, would be the same so long as the 5ft "move" and then the "partial charge" were all along the same line.

Really though, to be correct, you should just tell your players that they can charge, which means that they can move up to twice their movement rate in a straight line, and attack. This is what would cover the situation above. Five feet plus a normal move (all in a straight line) is a plain old charge, not a 5ft move plus a partial charge.

Not a big deal, but it's dangerous (or maybe just sloppy) to act like a normal round is composed of a move plus a partial action.

Actually, your solution is the sloppy one :)

Let's take an example:

Bob is in a corridor in an evil castle under alert. He sees some side passages ahead, but does not want to get too close in case something pops out. But he wants to move ahead and be ready to react in case something does.

Using my way:
Bob - takes an MEA down the hall, then a Ready action "If something comes out of one of those passages, I'll attack it".

Rules - anything coming out of a side passage up to 30' away (Bob's move) will trigger his charge and attack. If something hits him from behind before his Ready action is triggered, he will not be considered Charging, thus no -2AC. He will also lose his Ready if nothing happens to trigger it.

And yes, I am fully aware of the dangers (and former discussions) about taking a round apart to consider the individual pieces instead of the whole.

Your way:
Bob - charges down the corridor. What is Bob charging? He has no target for a charge. Can he still use the charge action? Does he have to be aware of what he's charging?

You way raises many more questions. In my way, as long as the requirements for charge are met (and granted it's a rare situation like the one I've taken as an example), it works.

And the charging questions I've asked would have come up in our game last night in which I'm a player, not a DM. In a darkened corridor, I could not see the fight taking place (it was outside of my light's range). Could I then have charged down the corridor just hoping for a convenient target? I wouldn't think so, so I did not even try it. Nor could I take a move action down the corridor, see the fight, then charge, for exactly the reason that you said (the round is not comprised of seperate parts).

(shrug) Both ways can be called sloppy, either works by the rules as written. And DM approval is seen in other rules such as how many Free Actions you can do in a round, so I don't feel bad about using it for Partial Action judgements also even though it is not explicity stated.
 

Personally, I disagree with most people's view that says you can't move and then charge. In the charge description, it only talkes about movment DURING the charge, it makes no mention whatsoever of before it. Also, charge is considered a standard action, if there was really no movement allowed before it, why would it not be a full action?

So on those grounds, I'd say you can take a 5-foot step and then charge, but that step provokes AOO, and you can only charge 30 feet now (you spent a move on the correction).

Now I have a feeling I've just opened up a can of worms:)
 

The question i have is that: can you charge if the person is not directly in front of you but is well within the charge range?

Example: Thorg wants to charge a ogre that is 30' away and 20' to the right of him and since he gets double the move when charging it is with in his movable distance. So can he do it as long as there are no obstacles in his path?
 

Let's say you have a speed of 1200000ft.

If you take a 5ft Adjustment (to use the new terminology) you have no movement left for the round - period. That's the rules. You may only take a 5ft Adjustment if you haven't moved in the round. Thus, you can either take a 5ft Adjustment, or move - one of the other, not both. You could take a 5ft step (not an Adjustment) forward and then walk 25ft to the left, but that's really just moving 30ft. By the rules you can't walk 5ft forward and then charge 25ft to the left (some people allow it, but that's another discussion).

To allow you to take a 5ft step and move in the same round would allow someone with a speed of 30 to move 35ft and attack.

Edit: Just reread your post. Someone could step forward 5ft (not an Adjustment and thus be susceptible to AoO) and ready an action to charge and then get to charge 30ft, yes, but the Sage ruled that the charge would have to be in the same direction as the 5ft step. I don't think most people were arguing that you can't move and charge in the same round. They were saying you can't take a 5ft Adjustment and charge in the same round. However, the only charge you could do this way is a partial charge.

Note: We really have to use 5ft Adjustment when we mean the 5ft step with no AoO and just 5ft step otherwise.

IceBear
 
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Belares said:
The question i have is that: can you charge if the person is not directly in front of you but is well within the charge range?

Example: Thorg wants to charge a ogre that is 30' away and 20' to the right of him and since he gets double the move when charging it is with in his movable distance. So can he do it as long as there are no obstacles in his path?

Yes...a straight line, as Caliban pointed out, doesn't mean straight as per the grid lines or directly in front of you. If just means that you don't have to change direction during the charge.

IceBear
 

Thanks Icebear, I think sometimes the rules are interpreted one way and it is ingrained that they must be this way and that is final. You tend to see a rule and assume that it is done that way and no other way.
 


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