5 foot step + charge?

[dcollins]

Personally, I disagree with most people's view that says you can't move and then charge. In the charge description, it only talkes about movment DURING the charge, it makes no mention whatsoever of before it. Also, charge is considered a standard action, if there was really no movement allowed before it, why would it not be a full action?

Charge is a "special standard action" which allows a move and attack but "carries tight restrictions on how you can move" (PH p. 124).

You'll notice that in Table 8-1 (PH p. 122) the movement allowed with a charge action is very explicit. Unlike other actions, the only move allowed is that in the charge, in a straight line before the attack.

[Actually, the SRD currently does list a charge as a full action, but my belief is that it's erroneous.]

 

[0-hr]

Bob is in a corridor in an evil castle under alert. He sees some side passages ahead, but does not want to get too close in case something pops out. But he wants to move ahead and be ready to react in case something does.

Using my way:
Bob - takes an MEA down the hall, then a Ready action "If something comes out of one of those passages, I'll attack it".

Rules - anything coming out of a side passage up to 30' away (Bob's move) will trigger his charge and attack. If something hits him from behind before his Ready action is triggered, he will not be considered Charging, thus no -2AC. He will also lose his Ready if nothing happens to trigger it.

You have some common, but serious, misconceptions about the application of actions out of combat. When you are not in combat (going in initiative order against hostile opponents) you do not take "move equivalent" actions to do things. More importantly it is impossible to ready an action outside of combat.

Even if Bob were in combat while sneaking away, moving and then readying a partial charge isn't completely legal either (check the FAQ for more info).

 

[Zenon]

You have some common, but serious, misconceptions about the application of actions out of combat. When you are not in combat (going in initiative order against hostile opponents) you do not take "move equivalent" actions to do things. More importantly it is impossible to ready an action outside of combat.

Even if Bob were in combat while sneaking away, moving and then readying a partial charge isn't completely legal either (check the FAQ for more info).

You have some common, but serious, misconceptions about assuming what I know and don't.

I assumed that Bob, in either of my examples, was already in an initiative cycle. My bad, I should have stated it.

Got a FAQ reference (FAQ date and pg number)? I'll check it out.

It's always possible that I am doing something wrong....

 

[Stalker0]

Charge is a "special standard action" which allows a move and attack but "carries tight restrictions on how you can move" (PH p. 124).

You'll notice that in Table 8-1 (PH p. 122) the movement allowed with a charge action is very explicit. Unlike other actions, the only move allowed is that in the charge, in a straight line before the attack.

[Actually, the SRD currently does list a charge as a full action, but my belief is that it's erroneous.]

I think the confusion here is that I'm not actually arguing about the charge action. I am in complete agreement with everyone here about one thing, DURING a charge action you must move in a straight line and cannot back up. I think this point is clear.

What I'm arguing is that the charge action, stated as a standard action in the phb (pg. 124; Table 8-4, pg. 128) is a single action that has no effect on your other actions within that round. I can take a move action, move in any way I want, and then charge. During the charge, your movement is restricted. However, during the move action you have the normal freedoms the move action allows.

Consider a hasted character as an example. A hasted character with a BAB of +1 can make two attacks. But wait a minute, a BAB of 1 only allows one attack with one weapon. If the partial action influenced the other actions my character could take, then that partial action (attack) would use up all the attacks I could make that round. However, we all know this is not the case.

The partial action is a set allotment of time, which carries it's own set of rules. It does not however, effect how I can move that round, or what standard action I could choose to take. It is a seperate entity, and unless someone can quote me a page number (which I would be grateful for) that specifically says that charge changes the move action of that round, then I will stick with my interpretation.

Finally, a passage from dimension door spell that might help reinforce my argument. IT says: "After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn."

This is a very specific exception to the case I have made above, one clearly spelled out in the book. The standard action of casting dimension door, actually prevents a movement action, or even any partial actions, from occuring after the action is made. But this is the exception, and since charge is not specified as one of these exceptions, I believe my interpretation is valid.

Sorry I got so longwinded, just spent 50 min debating in my english class, so I'm in the mood for it I guess

 

[Zenon]

Ahh, I understand.

The SRD lists the Charge action this way;

Charge [Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: The combatant must move before attacking, not after. The combatant must move at least 10 feet and may move up to double base speed. All movement must be in a straight line, with no backing up allowed. The charge stops as soon as the combatant threatens the target. A combatant can't run past the target and attack from another direction.

After moving, the combatant may make a single melee attack or a bull rush. The combatant gets a +2 bonus on the attack roll. The combatant also suffers a -2 penalty to AC for 1 round.

A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted combatant in a charge.

A target can ready certain piercing weapons, setting them to receive charges by using the ready action against receiving a charge. A weapon of this type deals double damage if the readied attack is successful.

The [Full] is a full-round action in the above listing.

I just checked the PHB errata sheets, and this does not seem to have been altered.

So, the dilema. Which is correct?

I tend to believe the SRD on this one. I also thought (but can't confirm right now, no PHB at work) that the PHB listed Charge as a Full-round action in one place and Standard in another? Can anyone find this?

 

[cybernetic]

Yup, he can EITHER charge or take a 5ft step not both. The 5ft step takes up all his movement for the round.

IceBear

yep.... if you take no other movement it the round you make make a 5ft step....even if you take a non-move full round action

(examples)
Cast Full-Round Spell + 5'step = good
Full attack action + 5' step = good

 

[dcollins]

What I'm arguing is that the charge action, stated as a standard action in the phb (pg. 124; Table 8-4, pg. 128) is a single action that has no effect on your other actions within that round. I can take a move action, move in any way I want, and then charge. During the charge, your movement is restricted. However, during the move action you have the normal freedoms the move action allows.

I again encourage you to look at Table 8-1 where that is explicitly not allowed.

 

[Arcanus]

Okay I think I need some help here.

In our group I think we are using the 5ft. step wrong.
We use it to prevent AoO's by moving 5ft. back and then finishing the remainder of our 30ft (which is now 25ft left) to get to what we are doing.

please give me page numbers that I can show our group.
Also does charge provoke AoO's?
If a character has only 1 attack can he move 30ft and attack?
Can he do this movement after he attacks? move 30ft or can he only move 5ft?

 

[Zhure]

PHB, page 117, right side:
"-If all that you do is move (but not run) during your turn, the space (generally about 5 feet across) that you start out in is not
considered threatened, and therefore enemies do not get attacks
of opportunity for you moving from that space. If you move into
another threatened space, however, enemies get attacks of
opportunity for you leaving it.
- If your entire move for the round is 5 feet (a 5-foot step), enemies do not get attacks of opportunity for you moving."

The second part is the crucial part. Emphasis added.

Greg