5 room dungeon

[Delta]

Very interesting article. I agree that it is easier for new players to learn the game when they are not bombarded with so many choices. I wish they put more starting packages in so new players could see how to build their own characters to match certain archtypes.

Actually, I think that's a mistake (or at least patching over the symptoms of a real problem). If building D&D characters is part of the fun, then new players should be able to build characters immediately, out-of-the-box, "the real way", and get hooked on it (like in the old days). If you're having to give them premade characters and say "later on you'll figure out character generation", then they've lost the whole this-is-my-character ownership which is so important (maybe of ultimate importance) to the D&D roleplaying experience. I argue that means we've got to drastically simplify the core options at starting levels.

But thanks for the compliment! I value your feedback.

 

[Jasperak]

The basic boxed set does offer the choice to build characters and play the game with limited choices and rules, but not worth $30 IMHO.

I toyed with the idea of limiting the choices available at creation but found resistance from the players.
1. Limit races to Human, Dwarf, elf, Halfling
2. Remove Sor, Mnk, Brd, Pal, Brb
3. Limit 1st and 2nd level spells to choices similar to OD&D
4. Remove AoO and change related feats

What WOTC should do is make a set of quick and basic d20 rules like TSR did years ago and either package them with the PHB or make available for d/l. Putting basic rules in circulation is a good thing because it makes it easier to get new people involved.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The SRD is out there in circulation. Anyone can take it and chop it down like you're suggesting. I suspect the folks over at Dragonfoot would be happy to help with #3.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

... and four empty rooms.

That's what the "dungeon dressing" tables in the 1E DMG are for.

 

[Celebrim]

That's what the "dungeon dressing" tables in the 1E DMG are for.

Amen to that.

Seriously, I think 5-9 rooms is a pretty good size for most dungeons. I think about 80 rooms is the top end for a dungeon, beyond which you are likely to bore even the most hardcore dungeon crawlers. The longer I've DMed, the less interested in designing or running a mega dungeon I've become. My first dungeons, designed when I was 12 or so were needlessly large with lots of identical rooms, empty rooms, pointless encounters, and an identical theme throughout the whole dungeon. The whole thing could have been done in 1/10th the space. Rarely now do I feel the need for something larger than about 15 rooms, and then only to make the dungeon feel truly legendary in its scale.

One thing I particularly like is the design in the 'Whispering Cairn' in the Age of Worms adventure path. Not only is it broken up into several distinct 5-9 room peices, but the entire dungeon need not be nor is it designed to be swallowed in one chunk. Rather, the PC's are expected to repeatedly return to the dungeon with specific goals in mind. The goal oriented dungeon allows you to have a 'mega-dungeon' without large chunks of dungeon crawling being required.

 

[RFisher]

When you take the five-room dungeon thing and realize that...

...each "room" of the article might actually be more than one room
...you can connect a number of five-room dungeons together into a larger complex
...there could be a few empty rooms just to break things up a bit
...and add in the whatever small variations on the original idea you can think up

...there's a lot of potential there.

I'm thinking I'm going to try a 25-room meta-dungeon: Five connected five-room dungeons in which each dungeon serves--more or less--the role of one room in the meta-dungeon.

 

[Delta]

What WOTC should do is make a set of quick and basic d20 rules like TSR did years ago and either package them with the PHB or make available for d/l. Putting basic rules in circulation is a good thing because it makes it easier to get new people involved.

I agree on all counts.

 

[JDJblatherings]

but the entire dungeon need not be nor is it designed to be swallowed in one chunk. Rather, the PC's are expected to repeatedly return to the dungeon with specific goals in mind. The goal oriented dungeon allows you to have a 'mega-dungeon' without large chunks of dungeon crawling being required.

A mega-dungeon can be designed in such a manner so there are clear goal areas so one doesn’t see the need to tacklt the whole thing in one improbable chunck.

When you take the five-room dungeon thing and realize that...

...each "room" of the article might actually be more than one room
...you can connect a number of five-room dungeons together into a larger complex
...there could be a few empty rooms just to break things up a bit
...and add in the whatever small variations on the original idea you can think up

...there's a lot of potential there.
QUOTE]

Certainly, there is a lot of potential for using such a scheme as the “five-room dungeon” in much larger environments. I’d likely enjoy a mega-dungeon that was designed along the lines that half or more of the action was in “five-room dungeon” chunks.


and yes a good basic set would be a great idea.

 

[JDJblatherings]

That's an interesting article. A few things spring to mind.

First, consider module B2 that has most of the monster lairs pretty small in that range, 5-7 rooms each or so (with guard/trqp entrance, main area, forgotten storeroom w/foreign critter, and boss-champions, often with secret exit at back to another zone). Also I immediately thought of module X1 with its stock 5-7 room cave systems.

Second, I've recently gotten nearly maniacal about applying the "7+/-2" rule, which says most people can conveniently juggle from 5 to 9 items at most in their short-term memory. I want no more than that many options in practically any aspect of my gaming anymore. So a short dungeon would keep every room memorable in that regard. (More at: http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2007/04/magic-number-seven.html ).

well...not a bad idea at all but we have character sheets and paper so we don't have to remember 5-9 things but look at where they are carefully detailed. Which woudl make all of a PC one thing..."look at sheet". We can actually look at thousands of things and find what we are looking for (part of our hunter/gatherer heritage).

here is a page that mentions that sorta- http://www.ddj.com/184412300

 

[RFisher]

well...not a bad idea at all but we have character sheets and paper so we don't have to remember things 5-9 things but look at where they are carefully detailed.

I still like it better when my PC (sans back story) can fit on a index card, though.