D&D 5E [5E] A Rogue "unnerf" - Extra Attack

[Flamestrike]

They're indeed limited to one sneak attack per turn.

Turn, not round. You can sneak attack on your own turn and then again (using a reaction) on a monster's turn for a total of two sneak attacks each combat round.

(I am currently unaware of a way to gain more than two)

Thief Rogues get an extra turn as their archetype capstone.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thief Rogues get an extra turn as their archetype capstone.

Ah.

Haven't played to level 20 though

 

[rczarnec]

The Thief ability kicks in at 17. Also at 17 the Scout Rogue can get two sneak attacks on the same turn, but not twice against the same target.

 

[Ashrym]

Ah.

Haven't played to level 20 though

Yeah, I brought it up earlier too. High level thieves easily get 2 SA's in the first round and add a 3rd by reaction.

Assassins add death attack and tricksters self-haste. I know a lot of people like assassins for crits but I prefer thief and trickster; usually thief.

 

[Zardnaar]

Level 17+ is mostly irrelevant.

 

[Ashrym]

Level 17+ is mostly irrelevant.

To you maybe. Not to those of us who play it. ;-)

 

[CapnZapp]

Sure, but it not a generally useful response to my criticism of the sneak attack design and the not-so user-friendliness of the Rogue.

Thank you for bringing these abilities to my attention, but for most players solutions at level 17 or 20 could just as well not exist at all.

 

[SmokeyCriminal]

From what I've noticed, Rogues use TWF for the extra chance at SA and not for the extra d6 damage. And they tend to want Extra Attack not for the extra damage but for the extra attempt at SA without having to TWF or CBE so they can free up their Bonus Action for Cunning Action. Basically Rogues just want SA as reliably as possible, and the extra damage is more a byproduct for most Rogues. Min/Maxers are the exception.

So i was thinking, why not give the Rogues something that's essentially;

Reliable Attack/Second Change: When you miss with your Attack Action you can attack a second time.

That way the DPS cap of the Rogue doesn't actually go up, but will give Rogues that extra change for SA, which is what Rogues are most interested in. And you side step Extra Attack which people seem to be weary of.

Rogues have a feature called Reliable Talent so it's keeping in theme. And I think it's more in theme that their combat advancement focused more on freeing up your Bonus Action for Cunning Action and getting SA rather then doing extra damage. Plus I just think there's something roguish about saying "I get to try again just because I'm a rogue."

 

[DND_Reborn]

From what I've noticed, Rogues use TWF for the extra chance at SA and not for the extra d6 damage. And they tend to want Extra Attack not for the extra damage but for the extra attempt at SA without having to TWF or CBE so they can free up their Bonus Action for Cunning Action. Basically Rogues just want SA as reliably as possible, and the extra damage is more a byproduct for most Rogues. Min/Maxers are the exception.

So i was thinking, why not give the Rogues something that's essentially;

Reliable Attack/Second Change: When you miss with your Attack Action you can attack a second time.

That way the DPS cap of the Rogue doesn't actually go up, but will give Rogues that extra change for SA, which is what Rogues are most interested in. And you side step Extra Attack which people seem to be weary of.

Rogues have a feature called Reliable Talent so it's keeping in theme. And I think it's more in theme that their combat advancement focused more on freeing up your Bonus Action for Cunning Action and getting SA rather then doing extra damage. Plus I just think there's something roguish about saying "I get to try again just because I'm a rogue."

It reminds me of the Stalker's Flurry: At 11th level, you learn to attack with such unexpected speed that you can turn a miss into another strike. Once on each of your turns when you miss with a weapon attack, you can make another weapon attack as part of the same action.

This is a nice option also, but I would probably associate a cost with it, like using your reaction to reroll the failed attack. This emphasizes if the rogue is pushing offense over defense, since giving up the reaction prevents Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. Yep, I like it...

Second Strike
At 5th level, you have mastered using your speed to turn your failed attacks into second chances. When you miss with a weapon attack, you can use your reaction to make another weapon attack as part of the same action. You must use the same weapon for the additional attack.

 

[coolAlias]

Second Strike
At 5th level, you have mastered using your speed to turn your failed attacks into second chances. When you miss with a weapon attack, you can use your reaction to make another weapon attack as part of the same action. You must use the same weapon for the additional attack.

I like this version of the rule much better than giving rogues the Extra Attack feature. It's thematic and contains an interesting decision for rogue players to make.