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D&D 4E 5E as a Rewritten 4E with Flavor Bits from Other Editions?

5E as a Rewritten 4E with Flavor Bits from Other Editions?


  • Total voters
    109

Mark CMG

Creative Mountain Games
I had this exchange in another thread but it got me thinking -

If we're changing the system (. . .)

I think the assumption is that it will be a whole new system with Frankensteining from many. I think they'd be crazy to try and trot out a 4E rewrite with some add-ins and optionals for making it quasi-feel like other editions. That'd more than likely be a non-starter for anyone who stayed away from 4E and half of the 4E fans would be pissed that a rewritten 4E was making their game books "obsolete" while the other half wouldn't switch. (Cue outcry of those who claim game books are never obsolete as they ignore what that means in context and how edition cycles work ;) ) Naw, I don't think they have room to peddle a rewritten 4E given what they announced and how the community is currently divided. Maybe this warrants a poll.

- maybe I am off base and 5E can be as simple as a 4E rewrite with bits and pieces from other editions to flavor it. So I ask as a poll in a simple up/down vote, regardless of the details which you can post if you like. No bashing, no warring, please.
 

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Roland55

First Post
It has to go further than that to bring me back.

If it's just 4E re-skinned, that will be fine for many people -- but the issues that kept me out of the sandbox will remain and I will immediately see/feel them again.

No. They have to go further, and everything I've seen so far tells me they are going further.
 



avin

First Post
I don't, not yet anyway. Besides, if 4E was the best core, then WoTC would have just kept the focus on 4E and Essentials, instead of announcing so early a 5E that will unify all D&D players.

Exactly.

Let's be honest here, and remain civil, we know that there are people who hate 4E and won't buy 5E if it's 4E reskinned.

5E won't be 4E or 3.5, it will be something else.
 

Sammael

Adventurer
There's no way they'll use the 4E core. The 4E core comes with way too much baggage, particularly the way powers work and the way everything has to balance out.

The way I see it:

The core will be much simpler. It will define what the ability scores mean, how the characters progress, what the basic conflict resolution rules are, and what the characters can attempt to do in a single round. Everything else will be... modular.
 

Ahnehnois

First Post
A repackaging of 4e would be a blatant money grab that the entire community would see right through and be universally infuriated at. If you like 4e, you'll be crying out at wasting money on this. If you don't, you'll not be convinced by a few tidbits.

I don't think WotC is going to do that.

What I read from the latest chat transcript was some very non-4e statements. They said that each class could have different mechanics, pretty clearly indicating that the 4e power system is gone. They said that wizards would have at-will abilities as feats, not built in (which is more like 3e reserve feats). They said they were "shooting for" 3e multiclassing. They talked about dissociating magic items from level advancement. Power sources are gone. It seems like a lot of 4e is going to be left for 4e, and the new edition will be new.

And that, conversely, is good for everyone.
 

Tallifer

Hero
I think the absolute core will be retrocloned OD&D/AD&D akin to Microlite.

The next layer will be very much 3.5: powerful Vancian magic, feats for fighters, different class mechanics, spells will have specific conditions and details rather than a handy list of universal conditions and timers, 3.5 multi-classing, no roles, more skills. (I also predict no healing surges.) With some Pathfinder-like improvement of casters like first level at-will spells and cleric channeling.

I think things from the Fourth Edition like rituals, martial powers, treasure parcels and milestones will only be represented in sidebars and slim optional books. I also strongly suspect that in order to build a 4th style fighter you will have to sacrifice a lot of damage and feats to get a few cool but nerfed powers. But as long as the Wizards keep the Fourth Edition Character Builder operating, I will remain happy.
 
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Jack99

Adventurer
No, I don't think it is. And I would love to know what on earth made you believe so. Because I haven't seen anything that even hints at it. In fact, I would say, that based on what we have heard, 4e might be the edition that looks the least like 5e. But yeah, I am sure there will be 4e-isms, and some people will hate 5e for it.
 

ferratus

Adventurer
No, because the power system is gone, roles are gone, standard conditions are gone, and I think healing surges are gone as well.

You can't take away all of those things and still call it a repackaged 4e. That's what the entire system is built on.
 

thedungeondelver

Adventurer

All I know is the mantra that's kept me optimistic through this has been:

"include" what they will. Just leave the option(s) to switch things off for those who want them off and on for those who want them on, and they'll have a sweet game.

If I crack the rulebook and there's no "switch" for ... certain things, it's just on-by-default, well, then I think that's all she wrote from my perspective. It'll be them yelling "PSYCHE! HAHA YOU THOUGHT YOU HAD A GAME HERE!"

and I what I'm hoping is that the case is that the few things I'm seeing/hearing from DDXP that are galling me are from play test instances where those were options set to "on" not core rules.
 

Tallifer

Hero
No, because the power system is gone, roles are gone, standard conditions are gone, and I think healing surges are gone as well.

You can't take away all of those things and still call it a repackaged 4e. That's what the entire system is built on.

Forsooth. At least the Fourth Edition books should be cheap to buy and play.
 

ferratus

Adventurer
and I what I'm hoping is that the case is that the few things I'm seeing/hearing from DDXP that are galling me are from play test instances where those were options set to "on" not core rules.

Well, we know that's the case with minis, so I guess we'll see.

I'm hoping that there will be more customization on the level of simplicity than just "we've pre-picked your choices for you". That's why I didn't like 4e Essentials at all, since it just removed character customization without really reducing the complexity of your character.
 

Oni

First Post
While there are some things I genuinely like about 4E, there are a lot more things about it that I grew to loath over my time playing it. I think there is a lot to learn from the system, but I think a lot of lessons come from flaws, or great ideas that weren't quite executed right. In short, there are some bits that deserve serious consideration for inclusion in the next edition, some bits that the concept is fantastic but need a fair bit of overhaul, and some bits that are just terrible (IMHO blah blah blah).

Ultimately though, if I wanted to play 4e, I'd just play 4e. I'm glad they are doing something new, if I wanted to play a version of the game that already exist that's passing simple in this day and age. A lot of my excitement stems from the fact that it is new and it is different.
 


Nivenus

First Post
Yeah, it's sounding a bit more like a mix of 2e and 3e with 4e sprinkled on the top to me. I mean powers appear to be out and Vancian is back in - that's one of the biggest contentions of the 3e vs. 4e wars.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
- maybe I am off base and 5E can be as simple as a 4E rewrite with bits and pieces from other editions to flavor it. So I ask as a poll in a simple up/down vote, regardless of the details which you can post if you like. No bashing, no warring, please.

I don't think this is a real possibility right now.

Maybe the 4e gamers base would actually like a 4.5 revision like it happened in 3e. I don't know many who didn't switch to 3.5 when it happened... (I am one of the few who went back to 3.0, but only later) so perhaps the same thing would happen with a 4.5, but it certainly would not gain the attention of 3e/PF gamers.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
I think it's pretty clear from the various comments made by the designers that 5e won't just be a rewritten 4e. I think you will be able to see certain 4e influences, but it won't simply be 4.5 with bonus early edition flavor.

I don't think it will be a 1.5e, or 2.5e, or 3.75e either though. I expect that all of the editions will have influenced the design.

Considering that they've stated the the core will be as simple as possible, that leaves 3e and 4e out of the running as the basis entirely. I still think we'll see their influences though. For example, they've already mentioned that they're looking to balance the classes, which is a 4e influence (I think they actually called out the role Essentials played in this). For another, they're looking to base multiclassing on 3e. So on and so forth...

While I'm confident it will be a d20 system, I'm somewhat doubtful that you'll be able to point to a single edition and say, "THIS is the edition 5e was based upon!"
 

Tequila Sunrise

Adventurer
Assuming the rewrite is to work out 4e's few kinks? Yeah, I'd have to consider buying that.

So...no! I want an easy decision come 5e, so I'm hoping for an ugly Frankenstein Edition.
 

scadgrad

First Post
I'm afraid that glossing over 4th ed and simply bringing in elements from previous editions would be an abject failure, serving only the most blind of WotC fanboys.

The 5E design team's job is a tough one since the fans they're trying to bring back into the fold are already very happy playing other excellent fantasy RPGs (Pathfinder and the various editions of D&D/AD&D enjoyed by the OSR crowd). They'd be far better off to simply give some of the people what they want (reprints and support for the old editions) and then attack the Pathfinder market w/ 5E. I think they're tilting at Windmills here, but I'm hoping that I'm wrong.
 

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