D&D 5E 5E Can't Fail If It Focuses

[Lanefan]

So far I'd call the game design score here as [MENTION=7635]Remathilis[/MENTION] 1, [MENTION=85179]ren1999[/MENTION] 0

When I say I think fondly of some of the "silly" aspects of previous editions, I mean stuff like system shock and teleportation mishap and weapons vs. armor tables.

System shock: excellent mechanic that should never have left the game. Polymorph balancer.
Teleportation mishap: bring this back and scry-buff-teleport goes away in a heartbeat. Teleport balancer.
Weapons vs. armour tables: yeah, I've played 1e just fine for 30-odd years without those.

Lanefan

 

[drothgery]

Teleportation mishap: bring this back and scry-buff-teleport goes away in a heartbeat. Teleport balancer.

... but a 10 minute casting time and extremely difficult to teleport anywhere but to a permanent teleportation circle? Better teleport balancer.

 

[slobster]

System shock: excellent mechanic that should never have left the game. Polymorph balancer.
Teleportation mishap: bring this back and scry-buff-teleport goes away in a heartbeat. Teleport balancer.
Weapons vs. armour tables: yeah, I've played 1e just fine for 30-odd years without those.

Lanefan

I like them, too! That's why I mentioned them specifically.

I suppose I should have clarified: when I say "silly", I don't mean "oh those silly grognards, how could they ever think such archaic mechanics were ever a good idea?" I mean, "puts a silly grin on my face when I think of the mayhem and ridiculousness they have caused."

So yeah. Maybe that sounds less combatitive.

 

[Tony Vargas]

5E can fail if it sucks. Nothing you posted here precludes 5E sucking.

More seriously, presuming that the goal of 5E is to bring lost gamers back into the fold, the worst thing they could do is take 4E and give it a fresh coat of paint. Nobody who left because of 4E will be lured back by that.

And this is why 5e is doomed. It will fail if it sucks - which it will, if it caters to the 3.5 holdouts who rejected 4e. And, it will fail if it doesn't appeal to those same people.

 

[grimslade]

[snark] 5E can not fail. It can only be failed. You do not see the true genius of 5E. It will be 4E, but better. It will also be 3.x, but more so than 3.x. It will surpass BECMI's and AD&D's illicit love child in your most fevered imaginings. 2E is a silly edition, let us not dwell on it, but 5E will have all the good parts. 5E will be so legen-wait for it- dary, it will just be called D, where D means whatever the heck you want, it's just that good. [/snark]

Next has some lofty goals. It is trying to be the Ur FRPG. It will most likely fail. But what a spectacular failure, it might just turn out to be a good game.

 

[B.T.]

And this is why 5e is doomed. It will fail if it sucks - which it will, if it caters to the 3.5 holdouts who rejected 4e.

If you think making 5e more like 3e will make it suck, I recommend sticking with 4e.

 

[Lanefan]

... but a 10 minute casting time and extremely difficult to teleport anywhere but to a permanent teleportation circle? Better teleport balancer.

10-minute cast time sounds good. Perhaps have the permanent circles (medieval helipads?) carry reduced or no chance of error - great intercity transport for those with the means - while going elsewhere has a significant risk...yeah, I can get behind this.

Another balancer is to limit how much can be taken along for the ride.

Lanefan

 

[drothgery]

10-minute cast time sounds good. Perhaps have the permanent circles (medieval helipads?) carry reduced or no chance of error - great intercity transport for those with the means - while going elsewhere has a significant risk...yeah, I can get behind this.

That's how the Linked Portal ritual in 4e (which is the closest equivalent to Teleport) works. It's an 8th-level ritual. True Portal, which connects two arbitrary points, is a 28th-level ritual.

 

[Gorgoroth]

that's a false

dichotomy right there. One may prefer 3.5 to 4e but still realize its inherent flaws and wish something better.

I like 4e despite it's extreme divergence from what D&D should feel like (to me), but if I were left on a deserted island with my gaming buddies with only 1 choice of game, that we could then house rule, it would definitely be 3.5 (or pref Pathfinder) as a starting point.

Luckily I'm playing pathfinder tomorrow...and drunk right now, thinking about the awesomeness of it all.

 

[Tovec]

... but a 10 minute casting time and extremely difficult to teleport anywhere but to a permanent teleportation circle? Better teleport balancer.

Exclude the 10 minute part and you have classic star trek transporters. Transporting from one transporter room to another sounds great, but the amount of options that exist where you teleport to a completely different point are endless. If anything I think that teleportation pads are too limiting and deserve too many rules to make them work effectively to be practical.

Now I'm not saying there shouldn't be serious restrictions to teleporting. Especially as to where they can end up or what stops them before they re-materialize. Thick stone, magical warding, lead, or similar tricks should automatically cause teleportation to fail. Simple tricks should be known to make it so that people can easily guard against teleportation. But that is completely different than teleportation pads. If anything teleportation pads should allow near perfect teleporting but other forms should exist too.

Just my two cents.

And this is why 5e is doomed. It will fail if it sucks - which it will, if it caters to the 3.5 holdouts who rejected 4e. And, it will fail if it doesn't appeal to those same people.

5e isn't doomed. The open beta isn't even out yet. It will fail if it doesn't appeal to a large enough market, which will be people of any edition and every edition who are willing to give it a try. If they limit the design to a rehash of 4e then they automatically alienate anyone who didn't like 4e, simple as that. Now there are certainly ways to introduce element of 4e that non-4e people will like (or at least tolerate) but they can't just make 4e and reintroduce older ideas and call it job done.