5E: Converting AD&D Monsters to Fifth Edition
Cleon
Legend
Okay, Adonides has a point worse AC than a 1E Pit Fiend but a lot more hit points (121 vs an average of 58.5, a hair over twice as much).
That suggests maybe AC 18 (natural armor) instead of a Pit Fiend's 19 and more than the 250 hp of the current draft.
The very high regeneration would make that impossible without increasing the Challenge Rating though. The original Adonides regenerated at 2 hits a round, which is slower than an AD&D Troll's 3.
The current draft has twice as fast regeneration as a 5E Troll and requires radiant damage to defeat. Also the Dragon magazine Adonides has "Fast Healing" type regeneration that did not require a special damage type to overcome and kill him: unlike needing fire or acid to finish off a troll, attackers just had to knock his hit points down into the "dead" category and Adonides would either stay their permanently or be temporarily disembodied until he could reincorporate himself back in the Hells.
EDIT: For comparison, a 5E Balor has 250 hp and a 5E Pit Fiend 300 hp, if Adonides had about twice those hit points one would expect him to haul 500 to 600 hp about, even more than the 401-445 hp typical of CR 21. However that'd make him CR 26 or so if I'm reading the Calculator right. :ENDEDIT
That suggests maybe AC 18 (natural armor) instead of a Pit Fiend's 19 and more than the 250 hp of the current draft.
The very high regeneration would make that impossible without increasing the Challenge Rating though. The original Adonides regenerated at 2 hits a round, which is slower than an AD&D Troll's 3.
The current draft has twice as fast regeneration as a 5E Troll and requires radiant damage to defeat. Also the Dragon magazine Adonides has "Fast Healing" type regeneration that did not require a special damage type to overcome and kill him: unlike needing fire or acid to finish off a troll, attackers just had to knock his hit points down into the "dead" category and Adonides would either stay their permanently or be temporarily disembodied until he could reincorporate himself back in the Hells.
EDIT: For comparison, a 5E Balor has 250 hp and a 5E Pit Fiend 300 hp, if Adonides had about twice those hit points one would expect him to haul 500 to 600 hp about, even more than the 401-445 hp typical of CR 21. However that'd make him CR 26 or so if I'm reading the Calculator right. :ENDEDIT
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Cleon
Legend
Hmm…
I've been running various numbers through the CR Calculator and he's coming out higher than CR 21.
I forgot to allow for the "Cast a Spell" Legendary Action. If he uses cone of cold that's another 28 damage added to the 101 DPR of three twisted staff thwacks and a vicious mockery.
It does make a surprising amount of difference lowering the Armour Class to 18, since AC 18 is typical for CR 13 to 18 and AC 19 is typical for CR 17+.
EDIT: It's no big deal, we can fiddle around with the DPR later easily enough. Just making the Multiattack two staff attacks for different damage could fairly easily adjust the CR a bit.
I've been running various numbers through the CR Calculator and he's coming out higher than CR 21.
I forgot to allow for the "Cast a Spell" Legendary Action. If he uses cone of cold that's another 28 damage added to the 101 DPR of three twisted staff thwacks and a vicious mockery.
It does make a surprising amount of difference lowering the Armour Class to 18, since AC 18 is typical for CR 13 to 18 and AC 19 is typical for CR 17+.
EDIT: It's no big deal, we can fiddle around with the DPR later easily enough. Just making the Multiattack two staff attacks for different damage could fairly easily adjust the CR a bit.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
ok dropping the AC makes sense. I like the idea of some regeneration embolding him for battle though - so drop to 10hp/turn and AC 18
250hp seems fair as I see him as having less hp than a big meaty pit fiend
(other thing worth noting is that his cone of cold did 1d4 + 16 damage and lightning bolt 4d6 - both nerfed) - so pondered updating them to cantrips with same damage types
250hp seems fair as I see him as having less hp than a big meaty pit fiend
(other thing worth noting is that his cone of cold did 1d4 + 16 damage and lightning bolt 4d6 - both nerfed) - so pondered updating them to cantrips with same damage types
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Cleon
Legend
Okay, we'll leave him at 250 hp. He is your baby.
With Regeneration 10 that means a DPR of 120 would give CR if my CR Calculator-Fu is working OK. That's roughly what he does at the moment.
Updating Adonides.
What about Speed? Adonides has Move 16" on the ground, a third faster than the 12" of an unencumbered human. That suggests 40 ft. not 30 ft.
He flies at 28" which is a bit faster than an AD&D Pit Fiend's 24". I'm fine leaving that as is for Speed 40 ft., fly 60 ft.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
agreed on speed....browsing thru cantrips now....
ray of frost cantrip pretty straightforward (and can do 4d8 damage) - but not a AoE obviously
ray of frost cantrip pretty straightforward (and can do 4d8 damage) - but not a AoE obviously
Cleon
Legend
Abilities next I guess.
The Original Adonides had a +7 damage adjustment from Strength 19, with is a step better than an AD&D Pit Fiend which is only Strength 18/00 and +6 damage.
The 5E Pit Fiend is noticeably stronger though, as is the 3E version, so I'd be game giving Adonides a Strength score that delivers a +7 modifier, either 24 or 25.
But if you prefer a +8 Strength Score it's fine by me.
It's worth noting that STR +8 and Proficiency +7 gives him a +15 to hit, not the +14 in your current draft.
Dexterity is impossible to judge from the original. Might as well keep it DEX 14 (+2) like in the draft unless we can think of a reason not to.
Constitution needs the +7 bonus to produce 250 hp with 20 HD so that can stay CON 24.
The Original Adonides had a +7 damage adjustment from Strength 19, with is a step better than an AD&D Pit Fiend which is only Strength 18/00 and +6 damage.
The 5E Pit Fiend is noticeably stronger though, as is the 3E version, so I'd be game giving Adonides a Strength score that delivers a +7 modifier, either 24 or 25.
But if you prefer a +8 Strength Score it's fine by me.
It's worth noting that STR +8 and Proficiency +7 gives him a +15 to hit, not the +14 in your current draft.
Dexterity is impossible to judge from the original. Might as well keep it DEX 14 (+2) like in the draft unless we can think of a reason not to.
Constitution needs the +7 bonus to produce 250 hp with 20 HD so that can stay CON 24.
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
happy to drop his strength to 24
Cleon
Legend
Now for mental stats.
I'm happy with the INT 23, WIS 18, CHA 25 of the current draft.
The original Adonides only had Intelligence 16, but high-ranking fiends had a massive boost in brainpower in later editions.
For example, a bog standard Pit Fiend was also INT 16 in 1E AD&D, but in 3E they became Int 26. Heck, the Arch-Devil Geryon was also 16 in 1E and 26 in 3E.
Even Adonides's servant Ice Devils are INT 18 in 5E, while in 1E they are High (13-14).
I'm happy with the INT 23, WIS 18, CHA 25 of the current draft.
The original Adonides only had Intelligence 16, but high-ranking fiends had a massive boost in brainpower in later editions.
For example, a bog standard Pit Fiend was also INT 16 in 1E AD&D, but in 3E they became Int 26. Heck, the Arch-Devil Geryon was also 16 in 1E and 26 in 3E.
Even Adonides's servant Ice Devils are INT 18 in 5E, while in 1E they are High (13-14).
Casimir Liber
Adventurer
well yeah - teh top cap in 1e was 25 in any ability though..so scaling has been stretched 
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