Manbearcat
Legend
@AbdulAlhazred , I hate to break it to you, but TB2 is significantly more rules-dense than 4e is! Overwhelmingly, I look at 4e as the rules-lightingest version of a rules-dense TTRPG (possibly) ever. So much of the game is intuitive once you understand a few core concepts, how they are integrated, what the point of the concepts and integration are, and the premise of play. The "fiddly bit" is all the intricate PC build configurations and synergies as play works toward level 30.
In my mind, skilled play in a D&D-like game depends very much on (a) the premise of play and how play trajectory is an outgrowth of that (the premise of 4e is extremely different from that of 1e) and (b) how the play loop incentivizes excellence and punishes both a single move and a sequence of moves that lack sufficient rigor (to meet or exceed the baseline standard of "skillfulness"). You (the player(s) ) are (c) trying to wrest the trajectory of play from both "the system's say" and "principled opposition (GMing appropriately)" while trying to arrest the spirals that will arise from the array of forces (the built-in hardship of play, poor dice streaks, the inevitably stray "misplay" by humans manning Team PC) aligned against you.
Consider the single bit of cognitive workspace inhabited in Torchbearer as Team PC decides if they can afford to/must Make Camp during the Adventure phase of play:
This single decision-point is a configuration of a myriad of both fictional positioning inputs and a dizzying array of interlocked mechanical and thematic inputs. This is a singular, extremely consequential, decision-point in the Adventure phase (which may lead to an immediately subsequent Camp phase) of which there are a great many more (upstream of this and downstream of it).
If all of the various interlocked mechanical and thematic inputs of this moment of play were not table facing and it was exclusively fictional inputs + either GM-facing (or even table consensus), it would fundamentally change the emotional and mental orientation of the player(s) faced with the decision-point. The nature of the ownership of the moment (and the moments downstream from it) would be perturbed significantly.
In my mind, skilled play in a D&D-like game depends very much on (a) the premise of play and how play trajectory is an outgrowth of that (the premise of 4e is extremely different from that of 1e) and (b) how the play loop incentivizes excellence and punishes both a single move and a sequence of moves that lack sufficient rigor (to meet or exceed the baseline standard of "skillfulness"). You (the player(s) ) are (c) trying to wrest the trajectory of play from both "the system's say" and "principled opposition (GMing appropriately)" while trying to arrest the spirals that will arise from the array of forces (the built-in hardship of play, poor dice streaks, the inevitably stray "misplay" by humans manning Team PC) aligned against you.
Consider the single bit of cognitive workspace inhabited in Torchbearer as Team PC decides if they can afford to/must Make Camp during the Adventure phase of play:
- Assess group's Conditions.
- Assess group's food and water.
- Assess supply of light sources.
- Assess gear status (eg damaged armor, dwindling supplies, dwindling inventory slots, lost precious items).
- Assess spells/immortal burden status.
- What camp type can we get on this Turn based on our location and what is the nature of the danger in this location (these things impact potential camp amenities and Camp Events and Obstacle ratings)? Can we afford another Turn to look for another place (Turns mean The Grind - the primary place you accrue Conditions - ticks onward toward 4 and light sources ablate)? Should we spend a Turn surveying for a good location and, if we do, how many amenities (Factors that increase the Obstacle rating of your Survivalist Skill Test)?
- How many Obstacles are likely left in this Adventure?
- How many Checks do we collectively have to even power tests within the Camp phase (are they sufficient and how would we even ration them in order of recovery/salvage importance?)?
- How are we collectively and individually on Persona, Fate, Trait uses, and Nature tapping (which can augment dice pools)?
- Do we have any Instincts that will help us here or in Camp?
- Does this particular moment in play intersect with a Belief, Goal, or Creed?
This single decision-point is a configuration of a myriad of both fictional positioning inputs and a dizzying array of interlocked mechanical and thematic inputs. This is a singular, extremely consequential, decision-point in the Adventure phase (which may lead to an immediately subsequent Camp phase) of which there are a great many more (upstream of this and downstream of it).
If all of the various interlocked mechanical and thematic inputs of this moment of play were not table facing and it was exclusively fictional inputs + either GM-facing (or even table consensus), it would fundamentally change the emotional and mental orientation of the player(s) faced with the decision-point. The nature of the ownership of the moment (and the moments downstream from it) would be perturbed significantly.