D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

[Yaarel]

Or not all effects are magical.

"The antimagic field spell in D&D affects spells, magic items, and other effects that are expressly magical. The spell doesn't care about the source of those things (arcane, divine, psionic, or something else). So some psionic effects would be affected and some wouldn't.

He's very clearly saying that there are psionic effects that are not magical.

I see what you are saying.

But the same thing seems to apply to dragon breath, whose source is magical, but perhaps the breath effect isnt "expressly magical".

 

[Maxperson]

I see what you are saying.

But the same thing seems to apply to dragon breath, whose source is magical, but perhaps the breath effect isnt "expressly magical".

Yep. He's also saying in the preceding paragraph that there are also divine and arcane sources of effects that are not magical.

 

[Steampunkette]

With the release of Tasha's Cauldron of Everything several months ago, I've come to the conclusion that 5e has everything it needs to release Dark Sun.
The common refrain is we need a dedicated Psion class - Humbug, I say. The interesting part of Dark Sun psionics was always their widespread presence, not the Masters of the Way. Dedicated power users are far more interesting along the Defiler/Preserver axis, as that plays into the core themes of the world. Masters of the Way... Just kind of skip over that, especially without extremely restrictive effect lists for what psionics can do.
However, that doesn't mean I want psionics gone. Psionics are an integral part of the post-apocalyptic aesthetic, where even seemingly ordinary creatures can wield terrible powert. Psionic subclasses, like the Psi Warrior and Soulknife, translate that to discrete mechanics for the martial/psionic gladiator.
I also think Wild Talents are an important aspect of the setting. These can be implemented as boons, which have been successfully templated in both the Theros and Ravenloft setting books.

Now, this isn't to say I wouldn't enjoy a novel int based Psion class. But I just don't think it's necessary to publish a 5e Dark Sun.

Oh, uh. Hey. Mearls answered this in Sage Advice, actually. Back in 2018.


So I guess, y'know... Problem Solved. WotC thinks we have to have a Psionic Class for Dark Sun!

 

[ChaosOS]

Oh, uh. Hey. Mearls answered this in Sage Advice, actually. Back in 2018.


So I guess, y'know... Problem Solved. WotC thinks we have to have a Psionic Class for Dark Sun!

1. Mearls is not an authority on 2021 wizards of the coast hardcovers. Not only was his account expressly his opinions rather than team consensus, but he's been shifted to other teams (last we heard he's coordinating with the video games)
2. The question he's answering is "do we need psionics", not "do we need a psion(icist) class". My thesis in the OP is that Dark Sun is far more about wide psionics - wild talents and then people who have combined them with other traditions - than it is about pure Masters of the Will and the Way. Frankly, I believe the pure psionicists actually undermine an important theme of the setting by getting around all the restrictions on the other sources of supernatural effects.

Now, to throw my two ceramics in on the "by 5e are psionics magic", the Counterspell discourse is a miss because JC wants to make clear that only spells can be counterspelled - you can have all sorts of supernatural, even outright magical effects, that aren't spells. Spells use spell slots and one or more of VSM components (barring some stuff like metamagic). Antimagic zone is a far better test because that's not just spells but all "magical" effects

 

[Steampunkette]

1. Mearls is not an authority on 2021 wizards of the coast hardcovers. Not only was his account expressly his opinions rather than team consensus, but he's been shifted to other teams (last we heard he's coordinating with the video games)
2. The question he's answering is "do we need psionics", not "do we need a psion(icist) class". My thesis in the OP is that Dark Sun is far more about wide psionics - wild talents and then people who have combined them with other traditions - than it is about pure Masters of the Will and the Way. Frankly, I believe the pure psionicists actually undermine an important theme of the setting by getting around all the restrictions on the other sources of supernatural effects.

Now, to throw my two ceramics in on the "by 5e are psionics magic", the Counterspell discourse is a miss because JC wants to make clear that only spells can be counterspelled - you can have all sorts of supernatural, even outright magical effects, that aren't spells. Spells use spell slots and one or more of VSM components (barring some stuff like metamagic). Antimagic zone is a far better test because that's not just spells but all "magical" effects

1) Certainly not an authority on 2021 Hardcovers. But definitely way more informed than any of us.
2) Taken out of context? Yes. But this was part of a thread of tweets and replies in which he talks about designing a core Psionic Class and the Psionic System to support it.

The point was he explicitly wants Psionics, and the class, for Dark Sun. Or, at least, did in 2018 when he -was- in charge. And it's far more representative of WotC's intent than your assertion that "You don't need a Psion"

In short: WotC still believes they need a Psionicist for Dark Sun. Otherwise Mearls, Crawford, et al wouldn't have been continually iterating on the Mystic, then throwing out the Psionic Subclasses while Mearls was still doing work on a core Psionic System and class to build from it. And then pushing out the Psionic Subclasses in Tasha's.

Yeah, the Happy Funtime Hour went away. It is sad. But still relevant 'cause WotC was paying Mearls (and Crawford, and others) to keep doing Psionic stuff.

'Cause the team literally said "We wanted to do the Mystic first but since it didn't work we're putting the subclasses out first" and used making "Eldritch Knight" available before "Wizard" as an example.

 

[vecna00]

cracks knuckles

You can kinda run a Dark Sun game with what's available now. It may not be as good as one would like, but you can do it. And you would need to homebrew a few races (half-giant, mul, pterran, and thri-kreen) and class options. You would also need to utilize either the mystic or the homebrew psion of your choice (Kibble's is pretty damn good, thank you to this thread that pointed it out! I honestly do not remember who brought it up, but you are a hero in my book). For defiling, I personally would stick with the method Mearls came up with ages ago.

I came up with some stuff a few years ago that works with what I would want in a modern Dark Sun, it's a step away from what a number of hardcore fans want, but it works for me.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing what WotC comes up with if they do delve into Dark Sun, even if I have to make my own adjustments.

 

[Steampunkette]

cracks knuckles

You can kinda run a Dark Sun game with what's available now. It may not be as good as one would like, but you can do it. And you would need to homebrew a few races (half-giant, mul, pterran, and thri-kreen) and class options. You would also need to utilize either the mystic or the homebrew psion of your choice (Kibble's is pretty damn good, thank you to this thread that pointed it out! I honestly do not remember who brought it up, but you are a hero in my book). For defiling, I personally would stick with the method Mearls came up with ages ago.

I came up with some stuff a few years ago that works with what I would want in a modern Dark Sun, it's a step away from what a number of hardcore fans want, but it works for me.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing what WotC comes up with if they do delve into Dark Sun, even if I have to make my own adjustments.

What was Mearls' method for Defiling? I've not seen it.

 

[vecna00]

What was Mearls' method for Defiling? I've not seen it.

"If you choose to defile during spellcasting, roll a d20. On an 11 or higher, you get the spell slot back. No matter the outcome of the roll, you turn the area around you to ash in a 5 foot radius for each level of the spell slot used. This rule assumes that people want to kill defilers on sight. Defiling could yield a lot of power…but the majority of people will not like you!"

This is paraphrased from what he wrote in a tweet ages ago. If I find that tweet again, I can link it here.

 

[Steampunkette]

"If you choose to defile during spellcasting, roll a d20. On an 11 or higher, you get the spell slot back. No matter the outcome of the roll, you turn the area around you to ash in a 5 foot radius for each level of the spell slot used. This rule assumes that people want to kill defilers on sight. Defiling could yield a lot of power…but the majority of people will not like you!"

This is paraphrased from what he wrote in a tweet ages ago. If I find that tweet again, I can link it here.

Oh... oh, I -do- like that...

... damn it. I'm going to wind up writing a whole Dark Sun Systems Sourcebook, aren't I?

 

[vecna00]

Oh... oh, I -do- like that...

... damn it. I'm going to wind up writing a whole Dark Sun Systems Sourcebook, aren't I?

Probably!

I do enjoy reading what others come up with stat-wise for the Dark Sun races and seeing their takes on some of the classes, even if I don't end up using them. If anything, it'll just get my brain going for something of my own. That's my goal when I write (when it actually happens), to at least give someone an idea or lead them to an idea they may not have thought of before.