D&D 5E 5e has everything it needs for Dark Sun

Yaarel

He Mage
Athas doesn't get down to the "every tree" and "every stone" level, but there are a very great number of spirits all around. A single hill could have several dozen or hundreds. Each outcropping will have one, the hill will have one, any groves of trees would have one, if there is a spring on the hill it would have one, the air in the area will have one, and so on.
That the more prominent features are the ones that are more mindful, is moreorless accurate.

It probably helps to understand that the mental influence of a prominent feature is more ambient than just that feature alone. The less prominent features nearby tend to go along with what their "parent" says.
 
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Why does it have to be done with spell slots if other magical effects aren't? Why does it have to be just class features if not all magical effects are? Why do you draw the line w/ the Psion but not with the monk, etc
I think that part of the reason is that people want the psion to be able to do a lot of stuff.
And most of that stuff is already detailed and packaged into handy mechanics - in the form of spells.

It is a lot easier for both players and publishers to have a class with a spell list referencing existing spells and then special rules for the class such as replacing components rather than have pages full of the dozens of new abilities required.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
"A Spirit of the Land is a powerful being that inhabits the various geological features (mountains, hills, rock formations, hotsprings, river beds, winds, skies, etc.) of Athas."

"A spirit of the earth is perhaps the strongest of the spirits, since the earth is always present. On an individual basis, a spirit of a rocky outcropping in a sandy waste may be threatened if someone begins to break up the rock."

All of which are unique.

In Athas, virtually everything in nature has a spirit.
If that is the material we have to work with, I failed to see how it could mean that every rocky outcropping is inhabited by a Spirit of the Land.

I read that Spirits can inhabit any kind of geological feature, and that when a geological feature is inhabited by a Spirit, the Spirit may be threatened if the said geological feature is disturbed.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
If that is the material we have to work with, I failed to see how it could mean that every rocky outcropping is inhabited by a Spirit of the Land.

I read that Spirits can inhabit any kind of geological feature, and that when a geological feature is inhabited by a Spirit, the Spirit may be threatened if the said geological feature is disturbed.
"every oasis, rock formation, stretch of desert, and mountain has a spirit that looks over it and protects its use."
 

Yaarel

He Mage
I am only realizing now that multiverse planes are irrelevant to Dark Sun. The original Dark Sun setting doesnt even mention them. The concepts of them only appear indirectly and incidentally as parts of spells and in connection to the elemental spirituality of the Cleric.

At that time during D&D 2e, the desire to discuss the planes only mattered to the Greyhawk setting. DMs who wanted to transport Greyhawk characters to or from the Dark Sun setting, speculated about how to make room for the Dark Sun setting inside the Greyhawk setting.

The original intent was to play the Dark Sun setting, and the Greyhawk setting didnt exist. How to link the two was an afterthought.

A later Dark Sun expansion book, Defilers and Preservers, mentions a few details for how to handle spells and the like.
• The Black = 2e Plane of Shadow (which was once a source for illusion magic, but in 5e no longer exists).
• The Gray = replaces both 2e ether and 2e aster, and serves as a "limbo" for the dead.

Relating to the Greyhawk multiverse, the Gray is a kind buffer against both the ether and the aster. The Gray absolutely blocks access to the Aster, but there can be some passages ways between the Gray and the Ether − if a DM wants to hook Greyhawk and Dark Sun together.

The thing is, in 4e and 5e, both the Shadow Plane and the realm of the dead have merged together to become the same thing, namely Shadowfell.

In other words, to say the only planes that exist in Dark Sun are the Material Plane and the Shadowfell, and nothing else, is an accurate way to represent the original 2e Dark Sun canon within modern 5e D&D.

There is no important reason to distinguish the Black and the Gray within 5e. Both are Shadowfell. One can easily say any distinction is regional. The "Gray" is the parts of Shadowfell that the memory of the dead inhabit, and the "Black" are the parts of Shadowfell that are unpopulated wilderness. Done. Somewhere in the Shadowfell wilderness is the entrance to a demiplane called the "Hollow". Also done.

Material and shadow − these two are the only planes.



Because access to the Ethereal Plane isnt really a thing, the earlier mention of Clerics accessing the Elemental Planes is actually problematic. It is better to understand that these "Elemental Planes" are regions within the Material Plane, such as volcanoes and streams and upper atmosphere.



There are spells that mention "ethereal". As far as I can tell, the source material isnt really clear about how these spells work, because the Gray realm of the dead generally blocks access to the Ether. It seems to me, when a mage "goes ethereal" in Dark Sun, what is actually happening is, they are entering and traveling thru the realm of dead. In other words, the 2e "ethereal" is also the same thing as the 5e Shadowfell. Per 5e, the "ethereal" mage is actually "shadow walking". The Shadowfell echoes the features of the Material Plane, so the "ethereal" mage can still navigate the Material Plane normally while within the Shadowfell, even if the Shadowfell version seems more gloomy and neglected than the living plane.



Now because 5e has merged the 2e planar concepts into the Shadowfell, there is an unintended consequence for the Dark Sun setting. Because the setting is more conspicuously involving the realm of the dead, the spells can obsorb a creepy necromantic flavor that might not originally be there. Then again, the Gray is the realm of the dead, so magic that involves it or passes thru it is accurately necromantic.

This goes back to the original point, in Dark Sun the planes dont really matter. If a spell technically involves the Shadowfell, this normally has little consequence for the populations who inhabit the realm of the living.
 
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We don't know the secret plans for the metaplot, and this can be retconnected. Maybe the souls of the sentient beings in DS in the afterlife is to be in the Gray for a time, and later they become feys in the "land within the wind" or undead in the black, a demiplane next to a shadowfell domain, Kalidnay. Maybe to survive the cleasing wars the rhul-thaun and other creatures built secret colonies or demiplanes in the Gray, becoming the home of spirits later. But these settlers could suffer the attacks by planar raiders or other hostile creatures. And the planar gates to the paraelemental planes are neccesary but also these can be source of troubles with accidental intrusions of paraelemental creatures.

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Yaarel

He Mage
Maybe reincarnation makes sense as the norm for the Dark Sun afterlife.

When a human dies, their bodies become the dust of the earth and their breaths become the breeze of the sky. Eventually, they recycle, becoming rocky features, plants, beasts, and other humanoids. The mind of an ancestor never leaves the Material Plane − but merely changes shape.

The Shadowfell is a place of lingering memories of yesteryear. But the minds of the ancestors remain just as much a vital part of the living community as when they wore their shapes of living humanoid bodies.
 

AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
Dark Sun will work better if the standard 5e cosmology isn’t crammed on it.

The DMG offer alternative cosmologies suggestions on page 44, I use Otherworld as a substitute for Feywild/Shadowfell/outer planes in my own. It’s great.

Athas needs to not have an incompatible cosmology squeezed over it.
 

Yaarel

He Mage
Dark Sun will work better if the standard 5e cosmology isn’t crammed on it.

The DMG offer alternative cosmologies suggestions on page 44, I use Otherworld as a substitute for Feywild/Shadowfell/outer planes in my own. It’s great.

Athas needs to not have an incompatible cosmology squeezed over it.

"Otherworld".

That is pretty much exactly what the cosmology of Dark Sun is. If a 5e DM wants connect the Dark Sun setting to the Forgotten Realms setting, one can equate the Dark Sun Otherworld with the Forgotten Realms Shadowfell.

But generally, Dark Sun is only the Material Plane plus a vague echo of it.
 
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