5e invisibility and Detect Magic

[Oofta]

My PHB says :''Other creatures don’t gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you.'' That's why i said that. Is it a ninja errata to Alert because i don't see it in the PHB Errata https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/Errata_PH.pdf''

I see said the blind man. Which if I had the alert feat would mean that my attackers would not get advantage on their attack!

Yeah, I use DndBeyond for rules because it's always up-to-date. That and I'm lazy.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This is where I'm going to disagree with you. Living creatures breathe and move, even when sleeping, and they cannot keep perfectly still for long periods of time as muscles just don't work that way. Some snore. An invisible bear could be heard, even if sleeping in the woods. Golems, possessed dolls and even undead, don't have those issues.

So long as we're in agreement that those are your assumptions about golems, possessed dolls, and undead, groovy. Personally, I rather like golems that aren't animated statues but instead active prisons for pissed off elementals subjugated to thier creator's wills.

 

[Oofta]

So long as we're in agreement that those are your assumptions about golems, possessed dolls, and undead, groovy. Personally, I rather like golems that aren't animated statues but instead active prisons for pissed off elementals subjugated to thier creator's wills.

The first thing that popped into my mind was whiny teenager spirits. "What do you mean I have to animate this hunk of metal! I always have to do everything around here, my spirit friends don't have to do this! I hate you!!!". Do golems have internal doors that can be slammed?

 

[Hriston]

Inside a building?

No, I was imagining a gust of strong wind occurring outside an old castle, causing a moderate draft to move through the room which nevertheless sets up a humming vibration in the golem’s armor or a slight creaking movement. It would be somewhat of a coincidence for such a thing to happen, but this is a story, not a simulation.

If you aren't forcing your low dex PCs to have uncontrolled movements, why are you forcing golems to?

We're talking about characters that fail a DEX (Stealth) check. The consequence of failure is for them to be noticed, usually by some small noise they make. I apply this equally to PCs and golems alike.

If the wind can't move a roundish 100 pound rock, it's not going to budge a multi-thousand pound statue.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nds-topple-6-tonne-statue-Chinas-emperor.html

 

[smbakeresq]

I think another issue is some DM are just afraid to surprise their players, or, more likely some players just cant stand ever being surprised and getting attacked one time for free, its the DM pulling a dirty trick on them. That's a pretty clear undercurrent through the thread.

 

[smbakeresq]

No, that's not what happened. You referenced a 1984 module and said big name NPCs didn't notice the golem, not players. That's written story, not a game.

Yes, I did. You were so busy on finding all the ways a silent motionless construct could make noise and explaining how if something isn't explicitly named in the rules it simply doesn't occur while ignoring many things that are written out in descriptions and other things that are assumed knowledge to see it. You then blamed everyone else for making assumptions while your assumptions were all valid. Like I said before, BYE.

 

[Maxperson]

I've encountered bears in the woods (mountains in Montana) and while seeing them scared the **** out of me for a moment, and hearing something tromping around in the brush that you can't see is kind of terrifying there was no time when it was close enough to hear it breath. Unless you're DareDevil, I doubt you would hear it's breathing over ambient noise until it was on top of you. At which point you've probably noticed it anyway. Unless of course it's "huffing" and making noise on purpose.

Well, I did specify INVISIBLE bear I was trying to stay on topic.

Try it sometime. In a crowded room where you aren't packed in like sardines, tell me if you can hear anyone breathing. Unless it's a gym, I would guess no.

Animals do snore and snort in their dreams. Heck, my dogs yip and bark while sleeping. It's easily within the realm of possibility for a sleeping bear to be heard within say 30 feet.

The way i would rule is that breathing (especially while asleep) doesn't really have anything to do with dexterity and is therefore a different DC that I would set based on the environment, whether I think they would snore, and size of the creature. A sleeping dragon is going to move a lot more air and make a lot more noise than a sleeping pixie.

Perfectly fine to rule differently of course.

No. It's certainly not dex based. I'd just set a DC for a perception check.

 

[Maxperson]

The DM may decide anything of course, but RAW many game elements specifically interact with no other way than hidden as a way to conceal your position. DM would need to more even more ruling than if using Stealth to achieve the same desired result.

RAW is unseen and unheard = hidden. There is no need for a hide roll. Invisibility spell plus silence spell = hidden with no roll. Any other set of circumstances that result in unseen and unheard also = hidden with no roll. That's the reason I think, that Crawford made the statement that I put in bold

I just think it's much easier to use hide. Especially to avoid noticing an invisible golem standing still, or someone unseen and unheard by factors not his own, if the goal here remains the same, to have a creature the DM think is unseen, unheard and also otherwise unoticeable.

Easier? Certainly. The best way? Not in my opinion.

 

[Maxperson]

So long as we're in agreement that those are your assumptions about golems, possessed dolls, and undead, groovy. Personally, I rather like golems that aren't animated statues but instead active prisons for pissed off elementals subjugated to thier creator's wills.

I've made no assumptions at all regarding golems, possessed dolls and undead. I've made a decision about them based on reasoning.

 

[Maxperson]

No, I was imagining a gust of strong wind occurring outside an old castle, causing a moderate draft to move through the room which nevertheless sets up a humming vibration in the golem’s armor or a slight creaking movement. It would be somewhat of a coincidence for such a thing to happen, but this is a story, not a simulation.

A moderate draft wouldn't do it in my opinion, and I'm not engaging a simulation with my argument here. I've done no scientific research on exactly how much wind would be required and/or how many cracks in the walls, how much distance down corridors, etc. would be required to make a golem creak. I just know that it would be a whole lot.

We're talking about characters that fail a DEX (Stealth) check. The consequence of failure is for them to be noticed, usually by some small noise they make. I apply this equally to PCs and golems alike.

So when you ask a player what his PC is doing and he says, "I'm just going to stand here." you make him roll a dex stealth check?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nds-topple-6-tonne-statue-Chinas-emperor.html

You do know that a gale is more than just a strong gust of wind, right? And I will bet you anything that during that gale, a gust of wind with hurricane force came out of that gale and hit that statue. There's no way in hell a 39-54 mile an hour wind overturned that base.