D&D 5E 5e Newbie - Tear Apart My Bad Build Ideas

[VikingLegion]

Hey all, zero experience with 5e but looking to get into a game this coming Autumn or whenever the DM is going to be ready. If you don't need the full origin story, skip down to posts 2-x.

I played and DMd at least a decade of 2e. I also DMd a 3e campaign that went for six years. At that point it was ~2010, we were all getting married, buying houses, some of us having children, etc. The gaming materials went up on shelves or packed in boxes, likely forever I assumed. In 2014 when 5e came out, one of my (ex)players started dropping hints that he wanted to get the band back together and run a story that had been in his mind for decades. I was excited enough by the idea of it that I went out and got a PHB and read it cover to cover. Nothing ever materialized, and we all moved on to other things, and I figured that was the end of that.

Then... last week the same guy says he's ready to revisit this idea. His kid is a bit more grown up now, he has more free time, his wife is interested enough to try D&D for the very first time, and a few other members of the old gang are available to give it a go. It looks like we'll have 5 or 6 of us - 2 of which have never played D&D in any form, but they've played things like Gloomhaven, MTG, and several video game RPGs. So I cracked the now 10 year old PHB open last weekend and started reading again. I didn't devour it front to back, but rather picked around while I re-familiarized myself. Here are a few, probably totally amateur, attempts at creating a character or theme. Keep in mind this is only vanilla PHB, no other products at this time, though that may not be the case when we start up. It is my understanding that a 10-year anniversary PHB is going to come out later this year with all the little rules additions and stuff that have come out in the interim. I will almost certainly be purchasing that. Ok, on to the builds:

 

[VikingLegion]

#1 NONE SHALL PASS

Class: Fighter
Subclass: Champion or Battlemaster (I don't know which would fit better)
Ability Scores: Prioritize Strength and Constitution
Feats: Polearm Master, Sentinel

Pretty easy theme here, just a stout guy that holds the front line and protects back row squishies. If anyone knows any small multi-class dips that would help specifically with this theme, I'm all ears.

 

[scruffygrognard]

THIS site is great for optimizing characters of all classes. I've used it quite a bit over the past 10 years.

As for your character idea; it looks fine to me.

 

[VikingLegion]

#2 THE SOHEI (Warrior-Monk)

Class: Monk with a Cleric dip
Subclass: Open Hand
Abilities: Dexterity and Wisdom
Feats: ???

I've always LOVED monks in every edition and even non-D&D specific games. Looking over the 5e Monk, well... it feels a bit underwhelming. What are some ways to shore up some of his deficiencies? I figure a multi-class dip into Cleric with the WAR domain might help. I like the bonus weapon attack based on Wis modifier. Since I'll already have a Wisdom of say... 16?, that's 3 uses/day. I feel like this will help when Ki starts to run dry on Flurry of Blows. The Monk may not hit hard, but with multiple sources of swinging 2-3 times per round, he can make up some of that deficiency with Fighters and Paladins. Plus the addition of some low level spells can let the Sohei buff up the team with Bless, or Guiding Bolt in round 1 while the big tanks set the frontline. Then he moves in on the subsequent round to chip in his own damage. The main question is, how far do I dip?

19 Monk/1 Cleric - Gives up only Perfect Self and 1 Ki point, but gains cantrips, L1 spells, and 3+ War Priest extra attacks
18 Monk/2 Cleric - Loses another Ki point and the level 19 Ability Score Improvement/Feat, but picks up an extra L1 spell and also Guided Strike for when I really need to hit a high priority target
17 Monk/3 Cleric - loses another Ki, 5' movement, and Empty Body but gain access to Level 2 spells - Spiritual Weapon looks like a good way to augment my low damage.
16 Monk/ 4 Cleric - lose another Ki, lose a Monastic Tradition, Martial Arts damage die goes from d10 to d8 and I don't gain much on the Cleric side at all except one more L2 spell. The only reason I would dip this far is if I were going to continue on to:
15 Monk/ 5 Cleric - lose a Ki, lose the level 16 ASI, but get Destroy Undead and more importantly - open up access to Level 3 spells. Is Spirit Guardians as good as I think it is? On paper it looks like a GREAT way to augment damage. 10 minute duration? How often does Concentration get interrupted? I double-checked Spiritual Weapon, figuring it would also have a Concentration requirement, but it does NOT, meaning I could have both of these going simultaneously while I attack plus Bonus attack with either Flurry or the Warpriest extra swing?

 

[VikingLegion]

#3 THE BARDCHER (a.k.a John Stockton - after the NBA all-time assists leader)

This character won't do much damage on his own, his goal is to allow the other members of the team to shine. When he's not buffing/debuffing, he chips in some supplemental damage with a bow.

Class(es):
L1 Fighter - get d10 hp, armor proficiencies, and most importantly, Combat Style: Archery
L2 Cleric - access to Bless and Guiding Bolt
L3-20 - Bard (College of Lore)

This character grabs every buffing/debuffing spell off his own list, plus uses Magical Secrets at levels 6, 10, and 14 to plunder the best available buffs from the Cleric and Wizard lists.

Feats:
Sharpshooter - to help when spells are already cast and/or the fight is under control
Magic Initiate - grab the Goodberry spell off the Druid list (without having to spend a valuable level dip), take Life as the Cleric domain, and boost it to 40hp cured. Hey, even I've heard of this one.

 

[mellored]

Hey all, zero experience with 5e...

I played and DMd at least a decade of 2e. I also DMd a 3e campaign that went for six years.

5e is a lot less finicky stuff than 3.5.

D20 + stat + proficiency bonus vs AC or DC.
And you get 1 Action, 1 Bonus action, your movement, and 1 reaction you can take per round.

The update goes though and cleans things up and rebalances stuff, and turns the finicky stuff up just a notch. Still simpler than 3e, but a bit more dynamic.

#1 NONE SHALL PASS

Class: Fighter
Subclass: Champion or Battlemaster (I don't know which would fit better)
Ability Scores: Prioritize Strength and Constitution
Feats: Polearm Master, Sentinel

Pretty easy theme here, just a stout guy that holds the front line and protects back row squishies. If anyone knows any small multi-class dips that would help specifically with this theme, I'm all ears.

Battlemaster is better for battlefield control. I would take defensive style if you plan on being a target.

Feats and ability score increases are from the same pool. So at level 4, you have to chose from Sentinel or +2 Str. But as fighters get more feats it won't be a problem to eventually get them all.

It's a good build.

#2 THE SOHEI (Warrior-Monk)

Class: Monk with a Cleric dip
Subclass: Open Hand
Abilities: Dexterity and Wisdom
Feats: ???

I've always LOVED monks in every edition and even non-D&D specific games. Looking over the 5e Monk, well... it feels a bit underwhelming. What are some ways to shore up some of his deficiencies?

Monks are the weakest class from 2014 (Beastmaster ranger being the absolute worst).

This is mostly due to them needing Dex and Wis and Con, which means that don't have any room for feat.

It's still playable, and gets better as you level, but starts with low AC and HP makes them fairly squishy in melee.

They are much better in the update.

I figure a multi-class dip into Cleric with the WAR domain might help.

You lose a lot of monk bonuses wearing armor.

Also, your best ability is Stunning Strike, and you want as much Ki (i.e. monk levels) to power it.

So I wouldn't multi-class.

Is Spirit Guardians as good as I think it is? On paper it looks like a GREAT way to augment damage. 10 minute duration? How often does Concentration get interrupted?

Spiritual Guardian is great. It's a top spell, but you do need to build around it to not lose Concentration in melee. Make sure to get proficiency in Constitution saves, either by starting as a class that has it, or by taking the resilience feat. Also grab Warcaster and possibly a shield.

All things monks will have trouble with.

Having a fighter with Sentinel to keep attacks off you will certainly help. But not if you run past them into melee.

Spiritual Weapon, figuring it would also have a Concentration requirement, but it does NOT, meaning I could have both of these going simultaneously while I attack plus Bonus attack with either Flurry or the Warpriest extra swing?

Spiritual weapon does not have Concentration, making it another top spell. But it will get Concentration in the remake.

It does however take a bonus action each round. You only get 1 of those on your turn.

So flurry (2 attacks for 1 ki)
OR monks martial arts (1 attack for free)
OR spiritual weapon (bonus action each turn for a spell slot)
OR warpriest attack (a few times)

They don't stack. So I would reconsider this.

#3 THE BARDCHER (a.k.a John Stockton - after the NBA all-time assists leader)

This character won't do much damage on his own, his goal is to allow the other members of the team to shine. When he's not buffing/debuffing, he chips in some supplemental damage with a bow.

Class(es):
L1 Fighter - get d10 hp, armor proficiencies, and most importantly, Combat Style: Archery
L2 Cleric - access to Bless and Guiding Bolt
L3-20 - Bard (College of Lore)

This character grabs every buffing/debuffing spell off his own list, plus uses Magical Secrets at levels 6, 10, and 14 to plunder the best available buffs from the Cleric and Wizard lists.

Feats:
Sharpshooter - to help when spells are already cast and/or the fight is under control
Magic Initiate - grab the Goodberry spell off the Druid list (without having to spend a valuable level dip), take Life as the Cleric domain, and boost it to 40hp cured. Hey, even I've heard of this one.

All casters have unlimited cantrip attacks, which have scale. So they can all do chip damage without weapons.

If you want to use a bow, then fighter 1 (archery style) / Valor bard would be the way to go. Fighter 1 also gives you Constitution saves which help your Concentration checks (see above) as well as armor (there is no armor casting penalty).

You will want both Charisma and Dexterity, so you won't get Sharpshooter until late. Make sure to carry a Rapier as well, if you get stuck in melee.

Would be a good build.

Life cleric + goodberry combo will also be fixed in the update.

 

[FrogReaver]

#1 NONE SHALL PASS

Class: Fighter
Subclass: Champion or Battlemaster (I don't know which would fit better)
Ability Scores: Prioritize Strength and Constitution
Feats: Polearm Master, Sentinel

Pretty easy theme here, just a stout guy that holds the front line and protects back row squishies. If anyone knows any small multi-class dips that would help specifically with this theme, I'm all ears.

Solid concept. Be a battlemaster because you can take precision attack maneuver and use that on OA's enemies trigger which can help land those movement stopping OA's - you can do this after you see your roll so will have a good idea if it's worth using the ability or not. I'd recommend a glaive or halbred for this. Fighting style probably is best as defensive.

 

[FrogReaver]

#2 THE SOHEI (Warrior-Monk)

Class: Monk with a Cleric dip
Subclass: Open Hand
Abilities: Dexterity and Wisdom
Feats: ???

I've always LOVED monks in every edition and even non-D&D specific games. Looking over the 5e Monk, well... it feels a bit underwhelming. What are some ways to shore up some of his deficiencies? I figure a multi-class dip into Cleric with the WAR domain might help. I like the bonus weapon attack based on Wis modifier. Since I'll already have a Wisdom of say... 16?, that's 3 uses/day. I feel like this will help when Ki starts to run dry on Flurry of Blows. The Monk may not hit hard, but with multiple sources of swinging 2-3 times per round, he can make up some of that deficiency with Fighters and Paladins. Plus the addition of some low level spells can let the Sohei buff up the team with Bless, or Guiding Bolt in round 1 while the big tanks set the frontline. Then he moves in on the subsequent round to chip in his own damage. The main question is, how far do I dip?

19 Monk/1 Cleric - Gives up only Perfect Self and 1 Ki point, but gains cantrips, L1 spells, and 3+ War Priest extra attacks
18 Monk/2 Cleric - Loses another Ki point and the level 19 Ability Score Improvement/Feat, but picks up an extra L1 spell and also Guided Strike for when I really need to hit a high priority target
17 Monk/3 Cleric - loses another Ki, 5' movement, and Empty Body but gain access to Level 2 spells - Spiritual Weapon looks like a good way to augment my low damage.
16 Monk/ 4 Cleric - lose another Ki, lose a Monastic Tradition, Martial Arts damage die goes from d10 to d8 and I don't gain much on the Cleric side at all except one more L2 spell. The only reason I would dip this far is if I were going to continue on to:
15 Monk/ 5 Cleric - lose a Ki, lose the level 16 ASI, but get Destroy Undead and more importantly - open up access to Level 3 spells. Is Spirit Guardians as good as I think it is? On paper it looks like a GREAT way to augment damage. 10 minute duration? How often does Concentration get interrupted? I double-checked Spiritual Weapon, figuring it would also have a Concentration requirement, but it does NOT, meaning I could have both of these going simultaneously while I attack plus Bonus attack with either Flurry or the Warpriest extra swing?

Monks already get bonus action attacks for free with Martial Arts and can spend a ki to make 2 attacks with a single bonus action AND you only get a single bonus action per turn. So most of what you like here isn't going to work together.

 

[FrogReaver]

#3 THE BARDCHER (a.k.a John Stockton - after the NBA all-time assists leader)

This character won't do much damage on his own, his goal is to allow the other members of the team to shine. When he's not buffing/debuffing, he chips in some supplemental damage with a bow.

Class(es):
L1 Fighter - get d10 hp, armor proficiencies, and most importantly, Combat Style: Archery
L2 Cleric - access to Bless and Guiding Bolt
L3-20 - Bard (College of Lore)

This character grabs every buffing/debuffing spell off his own list, plus uses Magical Secrets at levels 6, 10, and 14 to plunder the best available buffs from the Cleric and Wizard lists.

Feats:
Sharpshooter - to help when spells are already cast and/or the fight is under control
Magic Initiate - grab the Goodberry spell off the Druid list (without having to spend a valuable level dip), take Life as the Cleric domain, and boost it to 40hp cured. Hey, even I've heard of this one.

1. I'd suggest taking one of the bard subclasses that grant extra attack at 6th level if you plan to regularly attack with a bow. Otherwise just drop the bow and fighter levels and take 2 levels of warlock (Eldritch Blast and Agonizing Blast will scale much better on your charisma focused bard - while feeling like a magic archer)
2. Guiding Bolt won't work well since it keys off wisdom not charisma.
3. There's a newer spell called Silvery Barbs that works great for this concept if allowed.
4. Goodberry + Life Cleric may not work at your table. Rules aren't clear that it works the way you hope. Even if they were there's a good chance it's viewed as too strong and houseruled away.
5. There's also an issue because magic initiate doesn't technically add the goodberry spell to your spell list (though many DM's play it that way). Thus, it ends up giving you one cast of goodberry a day, unless you take a level of Druid.

 

[FrogReaver]

I've always LOVED monks in every edition and even non-D&D specific games. Looking over the 5e Monk, well... it feels a bit underwhelming. What are some ways to shore up some of his deficiencies?

Monks mostly require either more tanky melee characters to support them or casters that do alot of control. If you have either of those things, or preferably both then monks can really shine. In a pinch you can make a monk tanky with bonus action dodges but that cuts way into your flurry of blows and stunning strikes.

The key to being effective as a monk is realizing the value of conditions. Like the open hand monk can force an enemy to make a dex save or be knocked prone. Prone grants your melee allies advantage to hit it (and protects casters by taking away movespeed for the enemy to stand up on its turn). Giving a couple of melee allies advantage on all their attacks against an enemy can be a great boost to party offense. If you want everyone to focus including ranged enemies then you can do stunning strike (which also takes turns away from the enemy).

The biggest downside to monks is they are a little squishy early and they rely on short rests which can be iffy to get in some campaigns - but they are fine with bows and have great movement so you can always stay back if getting into melee looks too dangerous. Then pick your moment to engage in melee. Alternatively as mentioned earlier - ki to bonus action dodge works well to enhance survivability for a few rounds.

The great thing about monks compared to most martials is they keep getting great abilities throughout the rest of the game and eventually they get enough ki (assuming 1-2 short rests a day) to spam flurry of blows and still have ki to stunning strike occasionally.