5E on the horizon?

[Bedrockgames]

I think that a statement like that from Lisa Stevens is much more than an ancedote. However, it seem to make 5e a much more problematical venture.

5e is now in the position of a fantasy heartbreaker with a very strong fight on its hands from pathfinder, and past editions of D&D.

The statement by lisa is the first real evidence ive seen on this debate. Coupled with slavicseks departure i am inclined to think its true. But i also agree with your statement that if its true it makes 5e even more problematic. 4e may not be where they want it to be sales wise but 4 e fans seem to be very happy with the game. Is it worth losing their exosting fanbase in an unsure effort to win back the 3e folk who went over to pathfinder.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The statement by lisa is the first real evidence ive seen on this debate. Coupled with slavicseks departure i am inclined to think its true. But i also agree with your statement that if its true it makes 5e even more problematic. 4e may not be where they want it to be sales wise but 4 e fans seem to be very happy with the game. Is it worth losing their exosting fanbase in an unsure effort to win back the 3e folk who went over to pathfinder.

I think a lot of 4e fans would feel betrayed by a new edition if that edition was too much of a throwback to older editions. The fans of older editions already have those editions, after all, and there isn't a lot of incentive for someone who, say, loves Pathfinder to move to a D&D 5e when they're playing a game that appeals to them.

Having said that, if 5e was a refinement and fix to the current 4e problems, with enhancements made to support old play styles while keeping the goals of 4e in tact, I think a 5e would be well received. It would be especially well received if conversions between editions were simple and/or electronically (programmatically) simple.

 

[Raven Crowking]

It would be especially well received if conversions between editions were simple and/or electronically (programmatically) simple.

I, for one, wouldn't care for a subscription-based electronic tool.

At all.


RC

 

[dm4hire]

The only way I can see a resolve would be to find a mix that would satisfy both groups. Those who fell away in my area tend to have one overall complaint about 4e which is that all the classes feel the same because of the structure. Perhaps a way to fix that would be to combine from both. Here's how I'd do it:

Barbarian - steal from Pathfinder
Bard - 3e/4e Hybrid
Cleric - 3.x as well as 4e variant option
Druid - 3.x as well as 4e variant option
Fighter - Use 4e version (it gives more combat options I believe)
Paladin - 3e/4e Hybrid
Ranger - 3e/4e Hybrid
Wizard - 3.x as well as 4e variant option

 

[Bedrockgames]

The only way I can see a resolve would be to find a mix that would satisfy both groups. Those who fell away in my area tend to have one overall complaint about 4e which is that all the classes feel the same because of the structure. Perhaps a way to fix that would be to combine from both. Here's how I'd do it:

Barbarian - steal from Pathfinder
Bard - 3e/4e Hybrid
Cleric - 3.x as well as 4e variant option
Druid - 3.x as well as 4e variant option
Fighter - Use 4e version (it gives more combat options I believe)
Paladin - 3e/4e Hybrid
Ranger - 3e/4e Hybrid
Wizard - 3.x as well as 4e variant option

I think the problem is much deeper than that. The issue I think most 3E fans have with 4E is the powers system itself. My suspicion is it would be very difficult to win those people back. In a way 4E was really designed for people who didn't care for 3e. They may have an easier time winning over old school gamers, new gamers and satisfying their current base. The tactic of winning back lapsed gamers with shorter prep time and session time recently seemed to be paying off.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I, for one, wouldn't care for a subscription-based electronic tool.

At all.

Well recieved by the current 4e player base, I should have said.

But, more to the point, when I mean electronically/programmatically easy to convert, I mean that you can literally have a tool, that anyone could make (well anyone who could program) that could, for example, take a 4e monster as an input and spit out a 5e monster that would at least be playable.

I think that was one serious problem with 3e-4e. None of it was really convertible. 3e to 3.5e was easily convertible, and 2e to 3e wasn't actually that bad conversion wise. But, man 4e really said "stop playing with those old toys" like no other. That was WotC's second largest mistake, I think, with 4e.

I think, for the most part, the Pathfinder converts are just gone. I don't think WotC is getting them back on the treadmill, and I think it would be a mistake to try, from a financial perspective. 3.Xe people, less so. I think people who just didn't switch to 4e are still a viable audience.

 

[billd91]

I think a lot of 4e fans would feel betrayed by a new edition if that edition was too much of a throwback to older editions. The fans of older editions already have those editions, after all, and there isn't a lot of incentive for someone who, say, loves Pathfinder to move to a D&D 5e when they're playing a game that appeals to them.

Welcome to the 3e (and older) fan's world. Older edition fans may, in fact, have those editions already, but whatever form 5e takes, the exact same argument applies to the 'betrayed' 4e fans. They have their edition already.

That said, as long as PF is going reasonably strong, 5e would have to be really stellar to draw me in. I don't see that being particularly likely.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Welcome to the 3e (and older) fan's world. Older edition fans may, in fact, have those editions already, but whatever form 5e takes, the exact same argument applies to the 'betrayed' 4e fans. They have their edition already.

That said, as long as PF is going reasonably strong, 5e would have to be really stellar to draw me in. I don't see that being particularly likely.

Yes, but, at the very least getting the 3e fans back will be an uphill struggle. They simply can't afford to lose their (hyperbole) entire current playerbase to try! That would just be suicide.

 

[Dausuul]

I think, for the most part, the Pathfinder converts are just gone. I don't think WotC is getting them back on the treadmill, and I think it would be a mistake to try, from a financial perspective.

I'm not convinced this is the case. People burn out on games and want to do something new. Obviously this doesn't happen to everybody--witness the groups still playing OD&D after almost forty years--but it happens to a lot of folks. If Wizards can create a 5th Edition that appeals to Pathfinder fans, and time its release for when people are getting tired of PF and antsy for a different system, it might be able to bring a chunk of them back into the fold, in much the same way 3E brought back fans who had drifted away from AD&D.

Of course, this is an argument against releasing 5E in the next couple of years. Pathfinder is still going strong right now. But the thing about Pathfinder is that it's locked in for the long term. The need to maintain backward compatibility puts strict limits on what they can do to revitalize the brand with new editions. So I do think there is an opportunity for Wizards to steal some customers back.

 

[dm4hire]

Which is why I think meeting in the middle would be the only way. You're right about the powers, but I think it also comes down a lot to the cookie cutter feel of the classes, i.e. they all eventually feel similar for the most part.