Planescape 5e Planescape- What would you like to see in the upcoming setting?

[Ruin Explorer]

Child of the 90's here. We can deal with a decade or two of no dark and grimy.

Maybe a century.

Maybe until the sun burns out. That'd be nice.

Child of the '90s also, and we do with a decade or two of no pure zany or wacky hijinks. They were just as much of a problem, and remain just as much of problem. If you don't want any dark or grimy at all, I dunno maybe play a setting which isn't that? They do exist.

 

[Quickleaf]

@Ruin Explorer @I'm A Banana I looked closer at the new art from Diterlizzi... )

...and I noticed two faction symbols.

The first is a banner in the background on the right side of the illustration. It very closely resembles the original Sensates symbol, only there are two hands instead of a hand holding an ear on the bottom (yes, I'm a total Planescape geek and remember this stuff). After Faction War, the Sensates officially disbanded, but many continued to operate the Civic Festhall in Sigil, though others went to Arborea, joined the Mind's Eye, or decided to travel the planes.

The second is tattooed on the forearm of the blue tiefling on the right side of the illustration. The horns are very reminiscent of the skull motif Doomguard symbol, though the "ball of fire" between the horns is new. That's interesting because the Doomguard was basically exiled from Sigil post-Faction War... retreating to their fortresses near the Negative Energy Plane... their factol Alisohn Nilesia was one of the few factols to "survive" the Faction War by virtue of being sold to devils as a slave.


EDIT: I was in error. Factol Pentar was Mazed by the Lady of Pain.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Child of the '90s also, and we do with a decade or two of no pure zany or wacky hijinks. They were just as much of a problem, and remain just as much of problem. If you don't want any dark or grimy at all, I dunno maybe play a setting which isn't that? They do exist.

Every time we try to make something fun, the gloom squad bust through the wall like the Kool-Aid man and flings angst everywhere.

We've had twenty straight years of sadness and anger being the only valid emotions and people have the gall to ask why we're all depressed.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

@Ruin Explorer @I'm A Banana I looked closer at the new art from Diterlizzi... )

...and I noticed two faction symbols.

The first is a banner in the background on the right side of the illustration. It very closely resembles the original Sensates symbol, only there are two hands instead of a hand holding an ear on the bottom (yes, I'm a total Planescape geek and remember this stuff). After Faction War, the Sensates officially disbanded, but many continued to operate the Civic Festhall in Sigil, though others went to Arborea, joined the Mind's Eye, or decided to travel the planes.

The second is tattooed on the forearm of the blue tiefling on the right side of the illustration. The horns are very reminiscent of the skull motif Doomguard symbol, though the "ball of fire" between the horns is new. That's interesting because the Doomguard was basically exiled from Sigil post-Faction War... retreating to their fortresses near the Negative Energy Plane... their factol Alisohn Nilesia was one of the few factols to "survive" the Faction War by virtue of being sold to devils as a slave.

Minor correction: Alisohn Nilesia was the factol of the Mercykillers, which split into the Sodkillers and Sons of Mercy after her "disappearance". The Factol of the Doomguard was Pentar, who was among those mazed by Her Serenity.

On a somewhat related note, Keys form the Golden Vault mentioned two more Factions: The Fated, who are noted as operating out of Sigil (again?), and a new Faction called the Fixers, who work to keep the Blood War in balance, which I suspect could be a natural evolution of the old "celestial-backed arms dealers" plot thread.

Not quite sure whether we're getting a remixed pre-Faction War Sigil or a post-Faction War Sigil where the Factions have been allowed back in, but I'm definitely enjoying the glimpses we're starting to get.

 

[Quickleaf]

Minor correction: Alisohn Nilesia was the factol of the Mercykillers, which split into the Sodkillers and Sons of Mercy after her "disappearance". The Factol of the Doomguard was Pentar, who was among those mazed by Her Serenity.

On a somewhat related note, Keys form the Golden Vault mentioned two more Factions: The Fated, who are noted as operating out of Sigil (again?), and a new Faction called the Fixers, who work to keep the Blood War in balance, which I suspect could be a natural evolution of the old "celestial-backed arms dealers" plot thread.

Not quite sure whether we're getting a remixed pre-Faction War Sigil or a post-Faction War Sigil where the Factions have been allowed back in, but I'm definitely enjoying the glimpses we're starting to get.

That's right, thanks for catching my error. Been a while!

Interesting about a new faction in KfrGV!

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

That's right, thanks for catching my error. Been a while!

No worries. Been going over old Planescape material of late for a personal project, so it was fresh on the mind.

 

[Demetrios1453]

Minor correction: Alisohn Nilesia was the factol of the Mercykillers, which split into the Sodkillers and Sons of Mercy after her "disappearance". The Factol of the Doomguard was Pentar, who was among those mazed by Her Serenity.

On a somewhat related note, Keys form the Golden Vault mentioned two more Factions: The Fated, who are noted as operating out of Sigil (again?), and a new Faction called the Fixers, who work to keep the Blood War in balance, which I suspect could be a natural evolution of the old "celestial-backed arms dealers" plot thread.

Not quite sure whether we're getting a remixed pre-Faction War Sigil or a post-Faction War Sigil where the Factions have been allowed back in, but I'm definitely enjoying the glimpses we're starting to get.

I'm really getting interested too; it looks like they're hitting the right spots with this preview.

Also, it's nice to be able to have a hopeful, positive discussion on this product. I've visited a few threads on the D&D subs on Reddit, and, where usually there are threads with varying viewpoints, the doom and gloomers have taken over every thread I could see, which is very annoying. Yeah, Spelljammer wasn't the best product, but come on, let's at least discuss this product with an open mind!

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm really getting interested too; it looks like they're hitting the right spots with this preview.

Also, it's nice to be able to have a hopeful, positive discussion on this product. I've visited a few threads on the D&D subs on Reddit, and, where usually there are threads with varying viewpoints, the doom and gloomers have taken over every thread I could see, which is very annoying. Yeah, Spelljammer wasn't the best product, but come on, let's at least discuss this product with an open mind!

It may be a positive sign that the Vecna adventure is it's own thing in 2024, and separate from Planescape. I agree with @I'm A Banana that the most interesting parts of Planescape are when the conflicts move away from "I'm the evil dimension traveling lich here to ruin your day!"

 

[Malmuria]

Every time we try to make something fun, the gloom squad bust through the wall like the Kool-Aid man and flings angst everywhere.

We've had twenty straight years of sadness and anger being the only valid emotions and people have the gall to ask why we're all depressed.

Planescape has plenty of fun and whimsy to it as well. The videogame was very noir, but the setting material has a range of tones, with some elements being dark, some whimsical, some weird, and some all three. A lot of it is of a piece with classical faerie tales, actually. In fact, I think a lot of it was too goofy for people when it came out (the slang, etc). I think the goal was to make the familiar become strange.

Obligatory Diterlizzi art, whimsical and fun edition

 

[I'm A Banana]

I looked closer at the new art from Diterlizzi...

This is such a treasure trove. We've got weird faces leering out of everything, and spikes everywhere, which is As It Should Be.

First person on the left might be Rhys of the Ciphers. The tail and the big ears resemble the 2e art a lot.

The redhead here is art from the "Outsider" entry (aka, the "I am from the Prime" background), lookin' worried and new to the planes. Not a specific NPC as far as I can remember...

The second-to-last cutter has gotta be Sly Nye, the Xoasitect lawyer. Those sleves, those ioun stones, the braids, the way the vest is buttoned...Glad to see they gave him a nose this time, hahaha.

 

[Veltharis ap Rylix]

First person on the left might be Rhys of the Ciphers. The tail and the big ears resemble the 2e art a lot.

Feels more Cat Lord to me, though I can't imagine how/why she'd be in Sigil...

 

[Ruin Explorer]

We've had twenty straight years of sadness and anger being the only valid emotions and people have the gall to ask why we're all depressed.

No, we haven't.

Just making stuff up and saying it's true doesn't make it true. No matter how many politicians favour it. Sad to see that sort of approach on ENworld, frankly.

It would be fair to say, instead, that in the '90s we had a lot of darker games, but that pretty much died out by about 2004. That was 19 years ago. Since then, the majority of games have been increasingly light in tone, to the point where the average D&D game now, particularly to judge from podcasts, is pretty much wall-to-wall wacky hijinks. Critical Role is actually slightly darker than average, but is no real way dark. However, that's what I'm suggesting the target zone for Planescape - Critical Role levels of wacky/dark. If that's "2 spooky 4 u", I think that's a you problem.

If you disagree it would be great for you to provide some examples of how TTRPGs have been "twenty straight years of sadness and anger".

Feels more Cat Lord to me, though I can't imagine how/why she'd be in Sigil...

View attachment 280413

It's definitely her. If you see DiTerlizzi's twitter post on some of his favourite Planescape art and then compare it to the people in the picture, this is absolutely the cat lady.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah this is important - the unsettling, dark and grimy side should be there. Not just the "FUN WACKY ADVENTURES LOLZ!". It's not like it needs to be hugely dark - just enough not to be twee or purely "zany".

There is some zany in Planescape, but zany usually has a mirror, too. Like, the Xaositects were played for laughs a lot of times (LOL SO RANDOM), but were also unpredictable hedonistic thugs. Xanxost had a similar vibe - so funny and unpredictable and OH GOD HE'S EATING MY FACE THIS HAS TAKEN A TURN.

I don't want a lot of Acquisitions Inc wink-and-nod kind of stuff, though I bet some of that's inevitable.

Planescape has plenty of fun and whimsy to it as well. The videogame was very noir, but the setting material has a range of tones, with some elements being dark, some whimsical, some weird, and some all three. A lot of it is of a piece with classical faerie tales, actually. In fact, I think a lot of it was too goofy for people when it came out (the slang, etc). I think the goal was to make the familiar become strange.

STRANGE WHIMSY is absolutely a valuable Planescape vibe.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Feels more Cat Lord to me, though I can't imagine how/why she'd be in Sigil...

Yeah, that tail could definitely be a cat tail, and the dress and jewelry and expression feel a lot more "pampered cat" then "wordless acetic"

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Yeah, Spelljammer wasn't the best product, but come on, let's at least discuss this product with an open mind!

People do have an open mind.

That's the reason there's so much negativity. Because Spelljammer was dreadful, and that sort of treatment for Planescape would be dreadful.

And WotC explicitly stated, just a few months back, that Planescape would have the same format at Spelljammer.

Now hope has been raised that maybe that isn't true, and maybe it'll have a better format, but mate, let's be clear, it doesn't matter how "open" your mind is - 64 pages for to cover the entire setting and allllllllllll the rules including species, backgrounds, feats, spells, and so on is going to be awful. There's no possible way to make that good. It might 6/10 instead of 2/10, but it's going to be bad.

 

[cbwjm]

Yeah, that tail could definitely be a cat tail, and the dress and jewelry and expression feel a lot more "pampered cat" then "wordless acetic"

The dress also looks similar to the old 2e art, seems like cat lord is most likely.

 

[humble minion]

The first is a banner in the background on the right side of the illustration. It very closely resembles the original Sensates symbol, only there are two hands instead of a hand holding an ear on the bottom (yes, I'm a total Planescape geek and remember this stuff). After Faction War, the Sensates officially disbanded, but many continued to operate the Civic Festhall in Sigil, though others went to Arborea, joined the Mind's Eye, or decided to travel the planes.

The second is tattooed on the forearm of the blue tiefling on the right side of the illustration. The horns are very reminiscent of the skull motif Doomguard symbol, though the "ball of fire" between the horns is new. That's interesting because the Doomguard was basically exiled from Sigil post-Faction War... retreating to their fortresses near the Negative Energy Plane... their factol Alisohn Nilesia was one of the few factols to "survive" the Faction War by virtue of being sold to devils as a slave.

I have every expectation that the new Planescape will retcon Faction War out of existence completely.

 

[Stormonu]

If I were doing the setting, I think this is how I'd lay out the book:

Introduction
Chapter 1: Character Options
- Races
-- Aasimar
-- Bariaur
-- Gith (zerai/yanki)
-- Modron
- Classes
-- (Barbarian) Valhallan
-- (Bard) College of Portals
-- (Cleric) Pantheonist
-- (Druid) Beastbinder
-- (Ranger) Bloodwar Veteran
-- (Rogue) Portal Picker
-- (Warlock) Titanbound
-- (Wizard) Thaumaturge
- Spells
-- New spells
- Magic Items
-- Mimir
-- Portal Key
-- Planar Key
- Backgrounds
-- Outlander
-- Planar Wanderer
-- Petitioner
-- Primer
-- Sigilite
- Factions (Patrons)
-- The Fifteen Factions
- Chapter 2: Sigil
-- Overview
-- The Lady
-- The Wards
-- The Factions
- Chapter 3: Outlands
-- Overview
-- Gatetowns
-- Everchanging terrains
- Chapter 4: The Outer Planes
-- Planes of Law
-- Planes of Conflict
-- Planes of Chaos
-- The Styx
-- Astral Sea
-- Elemental Planes
-- Shadowfell
-- Feywild
-- Demiplanes
-- The Mazes
Chapter 4: Monsters and Powers

• Athar Thaumaturge
• Bladeling
• Bleaker Deadsoul
• Dabus
• Doomguard Anarchist
• Dustman Deader
• Fated Hoarder
• Formian

-- Worker
-- Warrior
-- Myrmarch
-- Queen

• Guvner Judge
• Harmonium Peacekeeper
• Harmonium Officer
• Indep Rebel
• Mercykiller Assassin
• Mercykiller Bounty Hunter
• Mimir
• Minion of Set
• Modron

-- Decaton
-- Nonaton
-- Octun

• Nic'Epona
• Signer Enlightened One
• Spirit of the Air

 

[cbwjm]

I have every expectation that the new Planescape will retcon Faction War out of existence completely.

Didn't the author of faction war state that there were plans to return Sigil to the status quo but the plans were quashed so things ended up just remaining post-faction war?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I have every expectation that the new Planescape will retcon Faction War out of existence completely.

If they've got any sense they will. But these are the people who gave us 4E Planescape which, despite 4E basically being in an entirely different cosmological setting, with fundamentally different planes and so on, still made Faction War canon, and turned Sigil into the Des Moines (or for British people, the Milton Keynes) of the multiverse. So they might not have any sense - but hiring DiTerlizzi suggests at least some working brain cells!