D&D 5E 5e Skills - Why I Think a Defined Skill List Would Be Better

[Harlock]

Hmm....

While I prefer the "undefined skill" thing as presented to a defined skill list, I do think a list of a few example skills is a good idea. But it seems to me that part of the point of the "undefined skills" system is to encourage rulings over rules, and I'd hate to lose that.

I also agree that perception, as a skill, is an uber-skill. I LOVE the idea upthread of applying Wilderness Lore to checks to notice things hiding in the wilderness and so on.

Example skills to me could be handled under the attributes umbrella. These "skills" fall under Strength, those under Wisdom, etc. In a sense a DM can even reward and encourage better roleplaying in a looser system. I'd be happy to grant an advantage if a player made up background on the spot to convince me they should deserve a bonus.

As a for instance, let's say a player wants to get some information from the townsfolk. Bob the Paladin pipes up that he learned to juggle back at Orthodox High (home of the fighting Crusaders!) to impress maid Matilda and so puts on an impromptu street performance. Obviously, Dexterity is the cardinal attribute, and because Bob's player was thinking in character and added to the background and flavor of his character, thereby enriching the experience for everyone, I am glad to let him take the advantage bonus.

I'd much rather have that happen than someone blandly saying, "We go to the tavern to hear rumors. I rolled a 13 and my gather information skill bonus is +3. Do we learn anything or do we need to go to a different area and roll again?"

 

[BobTheNob]

Example skills to me could be handled under the attributes umbrella. These "skills" fall under Strength, those under Wisdom, etc. In a sense a DM can even reward and encourage better roleplaying in a looser system. I'd be happy to grant an advantage if a player made up background on the spot to convince me they should deserve a bonus.

As a for instance, let's say a player wants to get some information from the townsfolk. Bob the Paladin pipes up that he learned to juggle back at Orthodox High (home of the fighting Crusaders!) to impress maid Matilda and so puts on an impromptu street performance. Obviously, Dexterity is the cardinal attribute, and because Bob's player was thinking in character and added to the background and flavor of his character, thereby enriching the experience for everyone, I am glad to let him take the advantage bonus.

I'd much rather have that happen than someone blandly saying, "We go to the tavern to hear rumors. I rolled a 13 and my gather information skill bonus is +3. Do we learn anything or do we need to go to a different area and roll again?"

I really dont think I could agree with you more. I want my players to feel that when it comes to RP its all about coming up with a way to use what they have to work with, and not about whether or not they have skill training.

If that means players can find a way to talk themselve's into a bonus for every situation (based on background or class)...great. At least they are thinking about it and not just "rolling 13 and adding +3". Far far richer experience that way.

 

[Mithreinmaethor]

I think there will be a skill list for the DM not for the players.

With pointers to the DM how to use the skills or arbitrate them. Like someone using Strength instead of Charisma to Intimidate someone, Using your Dexterity to Climb instead of just Strength etc.

 

[Sigdel]

I think there will be a skill list for the DM not for the players.

With pointers to the DM how to use the skills or arbitrate them. Like someone using Strength instead of Charisma to Intimidate someone, Using your Dexterity to Climb instead of just Strength etc.

I agree 100%. As a DM a list of the most used skills and ways to tweek them is exactly what I want.

I just hate it when the flow gets disrupted when I am trying to think what to call the check that needs to be made. Just give me names, descriptions, and possible uses and I turn it, flip it, and break it as I need to.

 

[john112364]

Or just make Perception a Wisdom check for other skills. Noticing something in the woods is a Wisdom check modified by your Wilderness Lore skill, for example.

I like this idea for perception.

It does make more sense that streetwise should be more useful as a perception check in a city and wilderness lore used in the wild.

Searching for that forbidden book of elder gods in the guild archives? Make a perception check with forbidden lore! After all you have a idea what you're looking for. You should have a better chance than someone who has a high wisdom and a general perception skill but no idea what this book would look like.

I could see possibilities for this.

 

[Greg K]

Personally, I want a list somewhere between Savage Worlds and 3e in length.

Taking the 3e list, I would

1. Combine Hide and Move Silent into Stealth
2. Combine Spot and Listen into Notice
3. Rework Skills
a. Craft (the crafting times and allow someone to run a business using their craft).
b. Craft, Knowledge, Perform like professionwould allow you to earn money. Profession would be for occupations that don't fall under Craft (craftsmen and artisians) , Knowledge (for scholars and sages), Perform (actors, musicians, singers) or rely on another skill.

4. Knowledge skills:
a. Replace Knowledge (local) with Knowledge (Culture) and Knowledge (Underworld)
b. Knowledge (Arcana): Dragons are moved to their own skill Knowledge (Dragons)
c. Knowledge (Nature): This skill becomes about knowing about Animals, Plants, etc. Monstrous Humanoids (giants, gnolls, goblins, etc.) are moved to a new skill Knowledge (Culture) (see below). Fey are removed and covered by their own skill, Knowledge (Fey)
d. Knowledge (Dungeoneering): Aberrations would be moved to another skill Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Culture), Knowledge (Religion), etc. as appropriate to the creature, its origin, and the campaign.

5. New Skills
a. Knowledge (specific Culture/Race): This skill covers knowing local officials, laws, customs, traditions, people, games, legends, locales etc. Each character would start with a bonus for their home culture to ensure that they would know the common things, but might fail at knowing more specialized or secretive knowledge not shared by everyone unless. Monstrous Humanoids (giants, gnolls, goblins, etc.) would fall under this skill each as a specific culture or multiple cultures (e.g, maybe you have desert lizarmen and swamp lizardmen).

b. Knowledge (Dragons):
c. Knowledge (Fey)
d. Knowledge (Undead): This skill covers knowledge of non-corporeal undead (e.g, ghouls, vampires, zombies)
e. Knowledge (Underworld): the counterpart to Nobility and Royalty. This skill provides knowledge of underworld figures, whom to contact for black market goods.gang symbols, how to conduct oneself, etc.

6. Development of skills and application
a. 3e skill points, but give more (I was not a fan of pre- 3e proficiencies nor am I a fan of skill bonuses in 4e or as being less important than abilities scores as in Next)
b. Allow alternate ability core uses as was a variant and 3e and proposed for Next.
* Handle Animal or Ride with Int or Wis to appraise the animal as appropriate.
* Craft to appraise the manufacture quality
* Non-magical attack bonus + wis to appraise the martial skill of an opponent
* Ride+ strength to control a spooked mount

 

[Crazy Jerome]

I completely endorse the approach of Perception as a "mechanic family" that tells you how to do Wisdom checks using other skills. Nice idea. Are there other critically important groups of skills that should get this treatment? I can almost see Animal Handling (broadly construed) as being one. For that matter, Diplomacy itself probably falls into that category, though then you need something else for the actual skill of being Diplomatic. (Perhaps Diplomacy is retained as the narrower skill of formal diplomacy, with Negotiation as the mechanic family that includes intimidation, gather information, etc.)

Outside of those, whatever the list, I think the problem is that there are basically conceptually narrow, but practically useful, adventuring skills (like Sneak, Lockpicking, Riding, Sailing, etc.) and then there is everything else (Folklore, Playing instruments, Professions, etc.) One of the main reasons that "professions" and "knowledges" fail as skills is how they stack up not only with those adventuring skills but also how things like "Use rope" sneak into the main skill list, in the name of diversity.

Since we already have traits in backgrounds, and the potential for extra skills in classes (ala the playtest rogue), what if a Background generally gives you one trait, one adventuring skill, and then a couple of made up, open-ended skills? The adventuring skill comes from a defined list. The open-ended skills are appropriate for the background. Where it makes sense, a background might have two traits and no adventuring skill, or vice versa. Then classes can supplement the skill list with more skills from the defined list and/or open-ended ones.

Or in other words, I don't much like PS:Blacksmith tacked on in a general skill list, but like better Background:Blacksmith with adventuring skills Appraise or Endurance or similar, with trait "Hardy", supplemented by open-ended skills Handy and Metalworker.

 

[jodyjohnson]

Between skill bonuses, stats, advantage/disadvantage, take 10, tools, and some sort of specialization from theme/feat, class, or background I have a lot of options for skills. Season to taste.