D&D General 5E species with further choices and differences

[Yaarel]

That's a great way to describe how it works in real life; it's a terrible model for a fantasy roleplaying game.

Everyone says they want "cultures" and "backgrounds" and (yes, even) "races" to be more flavorful and iconic, but then they backpedal and start talking about individuals and exceptions and special circumstances and then they wonder why everything keeps coming out the same dull, flavorless shade of beige. They're homogeneous because you keep homogenizing them; if you want things to be special and different, you actually have to be willing to let them stay special and different. You have to be willing to say that they're not the same thing, that they're not interchangeable, and that they're not something to be ignored and that they're not 'guidelines' to be reskinned whenever someone says they want to play "a dwarf, but not like all the other dwarves".

It is literally the same people complaining that "fantasy races" are just different rubber forehead aliens that refuse to let them be anything else. When everyone, every single instance of something is 'an exception to the rules', nothing is special-- everything is blandly, identically unique, just like everything else, and it's boring. When you mix everything in the kitchen sink together, the only flavor you're left with is dishwater.

I support flavorful, overthetop characterizations for factions - even alignment to assess their official ideology.

But ethnicities and cultures that reference reallife tropes need to be more thoughtful.

 

[Corinnguard]

That's a great way to describe how it works in real life; it's a terrible model for a fantasy roleplaying game.

Especially when 5e is trying to keep it short and simple. As everyone pretty much knows, RL is anything but simple.

Uh, didn’t the desire for culture as it’s own category come about because people didn’t like the idea of all members of a species having all their species cultural knowledge seemingly beamed into their head at birth despite potentially growing up never seeing a single other member of their species?

That would be my guess too. Which is why Level Up split species into heritage and culture in the first place. Level Up wanted to get away from the Planet of Hats trope.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

That's a great way to describe how it works in real life; it's a terrible model for a fantasy roleplaying game.

Everyone says they want "cultures" and "backgrounds" and (yes, even) "races" to be more flavorful and iconic, but then they backpedal and start talking about individuals and exceptions and special circumstances and then they wonder why everything keeps coming out the same dull, flavorless shade of beige. They're homogeneous because you keep homogenizing them; if you want things to be special and different, you actually have to be willing to let them stay special and different. You have to be willing to say that they're not the same thing, that they're not interchangeable, and that they're not something to be ignored and that they're not 'guidelines' to be reskinned whenever someone says they want to play "a dwarf, but not like all the other dwarves".

It is literally the same people complaining that "fantasy races" are just different rubber forehead aliens that refuse to let them be anything else. When everyone, every single instance of something is 'an exception to the rules', nothing is special-- everything is blandly, identically unique, just like everything else, and it's boring. When you mix everything in the kitchen sink together, the only flavor you're left with is dishwater.

For my part, this is why I have always spoken for key racial features.

Dragonborn have dragon breath, faster healing, and a frenzied edge when the chips are down.

Tieflings have infernal wrath (what 5e diminished to merely hellish rebuke), amped-up damage against weakened foes, and the other side-effects of having infernal blood.

Eladrin--"high elves"--have teleportation, Trance, and resistance to mental effects, as well as breadth of training.

Elves--"wood elves"--have deadly accuracy, help their allies to perceive more, and navigate wild spaces with ease.

Etc. These are things that actually communicate something about Elf-ness and Eladrin-ness and Tiefling-ness and Dragonborn-ness. They communicate the physiology. When coupled with further stuff that actually does reference culture--Arkhosian, Turathi, Cendriannic, Nerathi, etc.--you can get a pretty cool understanding. Most dragonborn will be Arkhosian (or, rather, "Arkhosian-in-exile"). Many Tieflings, on the other hand, probably don't put nearly so much emphasis on the culture of Bael Turath, being more caught up with current-day stuff. They haven't mourned their empire quite the same way the Dragonborn did.

And yes, this is specific to PoLand. I get that. There are plenty of things you can do just as easily in FR (Dragonborn from Tymanther, Tieflings from Elturel, elves of various sorts from Myth Drannor or the like, etc.), and the almost-guaranteed upcoming Dark Sun book can have cultures from each of the various city-states. Point being, the PHB things are way WAY inadequate if the point is to express actual culture through 5.5e backgrounds. Speculating about books that haven't come out yet, or responding to books that literally only JUST came out, won't be factored into this because...I literally could not have had any chance to learn from/about them.

 

[Yaarel]

For my part, this is why I have always spoken for key racial features.

Dragonborn have dragon breath, faster healing, and a frenzied edge when the chips are down.

Tieflings have infernal wrath (what 5e diminished to merely hellish rebuke), amped-up damage against weakened foes, and the other side-effects of having infernal blood.

Eladrin--"high elves"--have teleportation, Trance, and resistance to mental effects, as well as breadth of training.

Elves--"wood elves"--have deadly accuracy, help their allies to perceive more, and navigate wild spaces with ease.

Etc. These are things that actually communicate something about Elf-ness and Eladrin-ness and Tiefling-ness and Dragonborn-ness. They communicate the physiology. When coupled with further stuff that actually does reference culture--Arkhosian, Turathi, Cendriannic, Nerathi, etc.--you can get a pretty cool understanding. Most dragonborn will be Arkhosian (or, rather, "Arkhosian-in-exile"). Many Tieflings, on the other hand, probably don't put nearly so much emphasis on the culture of Bael Turath, being more caught up with current-day stuff. They haven't mourned their empire quite the same way the Dragonborn did.

And yes, this is specific to PoLand. I get that. There are plenty of things you can do just as easily in FR (Dragonborn from Tymanther, Tieflings from Elturel, elves of various sorts from Myth Drannor or the like, etc.), and the almost-guaranteed upcoming Dark Sun book can have cultures from each of the various city-states. Point being, the PHB things are way WAY inadequate if the point is to express actual culture through 5.5e backgrounds. Speculating about books that haven't come out yet, or responding to books that literally only JUST came out, won't be factored into this because...I literally could not have had any chance to learn from/about them.

Species mechanics are best when describing nonhuman physiology and magical capabilities.

With regard to Humanoid species, they are as culturally diverse as humans are. There would be thousands of Wood Elf cultures.

 

[Horwath]

That's a great way to describe how it works in real life; it's a terrible model for a fantasy roleplaying game.

Everyone says they want "cultures" and "backgrounds" and (yes, even) "races" to be more flavorful and iconic, but then they backpedal and start talking about individuals and exceptions and special circumstances and then they wonder why everything keeps coming out the same dull, flavorless shade of beige. They're homogeneous because you keep homogenizing them; if you want things to be special and different, you actually have to be willing to let them stay special and different. You have to be willing to say that they're not the same thing, that they're not interchangeable, and that they're not something to be ignored and that they're not 'guidelines' to be reskinned whenever someone says they want to play "a dwarf, but not like all the other dwarves".

It is literally the same people complaining that "fantasy races" are just different rubber forehead aliens that refuse to let them be anything else. When everyone, every single instance of something is 'an exception to the rules', nothing is special-- everything is blandly, identically unique, just like everything else, and it's boring. When you mix everything in the kitchen sink together, the only flavor you're left with is dishwater.

I would say that people want "racial features" that they can utilize in their character concept.

elven weapon proficiency means nothing to a martial, just sucking up "build points"
or mage has no usage on half orcs critical damage bonus with weapons.

on the other hand, everyone likes wood elven +5speed, dwarven +1HP/level or eladrins teleport.
that works with any character concept.


same way I feel for class armor proficiency.
why does every fighter have heavy armor proficiency?
I would like Skill expert(without ASI bonus OFC) instead of Heavy armor proficiency at 1st level.
maybe even Skilled instead of Medium armor.

IE, if you are wild elf form Chult in FR, why would you even have heavy armor anywhere near there?
who would train you with that?
better of that you get proficiency+expertise in Survival/Perception/Stealth if you want to survive there.

it's a good example with clerics/druids for armor proficiency at 1st level.
it should be for all classes that gain more armor than light.

 

[Corinnguard]

With regard to Humanoid species, they are as culturally diverse as humans are. There should be thousands of Wood Elf cultures.

Every species in a D&D setting probably is as culturally diverse as humans are. However, how do you expect WoTC to portray those thousands of Wood Elf cultures? There are an untold number of human cultures in RL, but there is not a single book that covers all of them.

 

[Yaarel]

However, how do you expect WoTC to portray those thousands of Wood Elf cultures?

Backgrounds.

 

[Corinnguard]

Backgrounds.

I think the number of backgrounds in 5e2014 and 5e2024 are just enough for the player to pick and choose what they want for their character.

 

[Yaarel]

I think the number of backgrounds in 5e2014 and 5e2024 are just enough for the player to pick and choose what they want for their character.

The fact that two citizens from the same culture can have completely different backgrounds, makes it easy to represent any cultures that the setting takes place within.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Species mechanics are best when describing nonhuman physiology and magical capabilities.

With regard to Humanoid species, they are as culturally diverse as humans are. There would be thousands of Wood Elf cultures.

There will be thousands, yes.

Is it useful to have thousands of them as options?

Or is it useful to articulate relevant, interesting, evocative ones, and then carve out a clear space for "If none of these describe YOUR character, this is where you draft your own."

It is not bad to have tangible archetypes to work with. That is not racist. That is part of life. We all have labels. Categories. Pretending that someone is nothing but their labels is just as bad as pretending that every label is so hyperspecific ultraunique totally different from absolutely everyone else that you literally cannot ever speak any single detail ever without it being part of a comprehensive biography from the moment a person's great-great-great grandparents were conceived.

It's a game. By definition, we simplify some things. By definition, we accept that we are using a map, not the territory, and that we must cut some corners in order to make a playable, worthwhile experience. Having a selection of cultural backgrounds is not harmful, it is necessary for culture to matter as part of the GAME and not just a fluff detail instantly forgotten the moment the dice hit the table.