D&D 5E 5E Survivor - Subclasses (Part VI: Fighters)

[Vaalingrade]

Then you will understand the frustration of being told to pick the Battle Master when you tell someone you want to play a Warlord.

"I need a chainsaw to cut down this acre of forest."

"Here is a live beaver. But I pulled all but one of his teeth out. I am not sure myself whether I did that because I hate him or hate you. Have fun."

 

[CleverNickName]

I guess I don't understand what a Warlord is. (I'm not being snarky, I've never played one and it's not in any of the books I own.) From what I've gathered from the forums here, it has a lot in common with the psion: it's not a "magic user" in the traditional sense but it has magic-adjacent abilities, nobody can agree on what it is supposed to look like, and Wizards of the Coast hasn't gotten it right yet in 5th Edition.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I guess I don't understand what a Warlord is. From what I've gathered from the forums here, it has a lot in common with the psion: it's not a "magic user" in the traditional sense but it has magic-adjacent abilities, nobody can agree on what it is supposed to look like, and Wizards of the Coast hasn't gotten it right yet in 5th Edition.

A Warlord is a tactical combat leader who is able to inspire and direct allies, doing things like allowing allies to move or attack using their actions and providing buffs through said inspiration.

Its had absolutely zero magic or even remotely magic adjacent abilities. The assertion that is is is the product of very stupid memes and active deception campaigns at them time combined with some people's utter failure to accept that a discrete ability in D&D could be something that is not a spell.

Basically, by the standards by which the warlord was was magic, Second Wind and Sneak Attack are magic. And Action Surge is straight up high level sorcery.

And WotC has not attempted them at all and 5e.

 

[DND_Reborn]

And WotC has not attempted them at all and 5e.

I wonder why that is...?

I don't know just how the Warlord's features worked, but the concept is solid enough IMO. The Warlord's features would utilize the reactions of those affected, I assume? Some of the BM maneuvers would seem to work, but would need to be developed on a grander scale I would think.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I wonder why that is...?

Because it's a 4e class. They avoid using keywords because 4e used those. They try to find ways around saying 'encounter power' because 4e etc.

I don't know just how the Warlord's features worked, but the concept is solid enough IMO. The Warlord's features would utilize the reactions of those affected, I assume? Some of the BM maneuvers would seem to work, but would need to be developed on a grander scale I would think.

Warlord is basically meant to be the non-caster support, but in melee (so Str was a primary stat, with Int and Cha as secondary, because leader). So they can attack + heal an ally, provide temphp, give an AC bonus, give a lot of damage bonuses, provide extra movement, order an ally to attack, just do what some Battlemaster maneuvers are pale copies of...

They were really cool. You could even make a Lazy Warlord who didn't attack themself, just moved everyone else around and gave them actions.

 

[CleverNickName]

Hm. As you describe it, @Vaalingrade, it seems like a lot of what the Warlord does could be handled with the Bardic Inspiration mechanic (reskinned, of course). Maybe add a suite of new Maneuvers (calling them something else to avoid confusion/mixing with the Battle Master.)

But I'm sure it's not that simple, or it would have been done already.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

If you were to bastardize a poor man's Warlord from existing 5e bits, you would take the Bard, and replace their spellcasting with Battlemaster maneuvers.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Warlord is basically meant to be the non-caster support, but in melee (so Str was a primary stat, with Int and Cha as secondary, because leader). So they can attack + heal an ally, provide temphp, give an AC bonus, give a lot of damage bonuses, provide extra movement, order an ally to attack, just do what some Battlemaster maneuvers are pale copies of...

Hmm...

Just so I am clear on this: you wrote they can attack + heal an ally, for example. What was the logic behind this? In 5E terms, I could see maybe granting the ally the temp hp (you also mentioned), but attacking and actual healing--on the same turn? Or do you mean on separate turns?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Just so I am clear on this: you wrote they can attack + heal an ally, for example. What was the logic behind this? In 5E terms, I could see maybe granting the ally the temp hp (you also mentioned), but attacking and actual healing--on the same turn? Or do you mean on separate turns?

Basic structure for powers in 4e was make an attack + deal damage + special effect (not all of them, but most). So everything I listed can be a part of their attack action, depending on what attack power they used. Plus, they could've spent their minor action on Inspiring Word to heal someone by shouting at them.

And the last part is what really grinds certain people's 4e-hating gears, despite insisting in other threads that hitpoints aren't physical wounds.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Hm. As you describe it, @Vaalingrade, it seems like a lot of what the Warlord does could be handled with the Bardic Inspiration mechanic (reskinned, of course). Maybe add a suite of new Maneuvers (calling them something else to avoid confusion/mixing with the Battle Master.)

But I'm sure it's not that simple, or it would have been done already.

Since there's not a lot of Save Ends effects in 5e, most of the Warlord's buffs don't really translate, was what they did was letting allies roll a new save etc.

The maneuvers deal is where the connections are drawn between the BM and Warlord. However, it's important to understand that the Warlord had at-will and encounter powers and Short Rests were 5 minutes instead of absolute sadness. The Warlord had things like Wolfpack Tactics, which let an ally move when they move at-will, or commander's strike, which let an ally attack in place of them, again at-will.

Basically, a Warlord never just moved and did a basic attack. Pretty much no one did back in the good old days. The idea of only getting to Commander's Strike once an encounter and probably only twice a day is pretty much what makes the idea of playing a BM as a warlord maddening, and the idea that you only get to be the character you made a couple of times a day and only after 3rd level is baked into early 5e design.