D&D General 5e System Redesign through New Classes and Setting. A Thought Experiment.

[Steampunkette]

Ah beans….

Okay I am resisting the powerful urge to argue about 4e powers.

But I do think that if you take specific 4e powers and present them like 5e Battlemaster manuevers or spells, depending on the specific power, you are already a lot to the way to fixing the feel of them. For some reason, if a power has the same format and says, “1[w]+dex” on a hit and then describes a rider, that is perceived as more similar to “1[w]+dex+5” than it would be if written out as a sentence. Battlemaster manuevers simply are not more diverse in effect than 4e encounter powers. They just feel that way to some folks because of the format.

That said, 100% agree about needing to know more powers than you have power uses. It’s a huge improvement in 5e.

One option is to use the format of Battlemaster manuevers, monk discipline features, or Star Wars force powers, depending on the class. Don’t use the same format, just keep them in the power scale of encounter resources.

But I do think that encounter focused class variants work great as an idea, and don’t need to be presented as “restricted”.

I definitely wouldn't use it as Battlemaster Maneuvers, no... Because this would also apply to Spellcasters. Full and Half and 3/4, too.

My current thought is that 1st and 2nd level spells are always Encounter Powers. But after that point, the top three spell levels you can cast are dailies. (And you only get 2-3 daily uses). Anything below your top-tier spellcasting gets downgraded to Encounter power.

So once you can do 6th level spells, your 4th, 5th, and 6th level spells are dailies, but 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are encounter. Which would allow for Encounter Fireball.

I'd also lean in on using Short Rest as the core recovery method. Probably reduced to 10 minutes as a blanket concept so that you can get a rest in while someone is doing a Ritual. Hit Dice still recovering on a long rest, but plenty of HP regeneration on short rests from healer classes so you don't have to burn all your HD at once for out of combat healing...

Things like that.

 

[Zardnaar]

New D&D would need to dump dailies or make modern AD&D 3E or advanced B/X.

Its a modern design problem since 4E. 4E got it wrong as well and still has dailies.

Problem is entire generation of players are used to D&D easy mode.

So drastic redesign that could tank hard or patch 5E with better monster design/DM specials.

Pick your poison. Go with it, drastic redesign or start looking at pre 4E rates of healing (minus wands of clw) for 6E. Reduce power levels of PCs which may not go over well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I definitely wouldn't use it as Battlemaster Maneuvers, no... Because this would also apply to Spellcasters. Full and Half and 3/4, too.

My current thought is that 1st and 2nd level spells are always Encounter Powers. But after that point, the top three spell levels you can cast are dailies. (And you only get 2-3 daily uses). Anything below your top-tier spellcasting gets downgraded to Encounter power.

So once you can do 6th level spells, your 4th, 5th, and 6th level spells are dailies, but 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are encounter. Which would allow for Encounter Fireball.

I'd also lean in on using Short Rest as the core recovery method. Probably reduced to 10 minutes as a blanket concept so that you can get a rest in while someone is doing a Ritual. Hit Dice still recovering on a long rest, but plenty of HP regeneration on short rests from healer classes so you don't have to burn all your HD at once for out of combat healing...

Things like that.

Yeah that sounds roughly like a 5.4e that could work. I personally wouldn’t let 6th level spells ever be encounter spells, but that’s a small adjustment.

I’d also adjust all classes that aren’t full casters to have the reduced slot progression but not spell level progression pace. So half casters only get 5th level and lower spells but they unlock each level at the same level as full casters.

When they get to treat their higher level spells as encounter powers after level 11…idk. Someone would do the math at some point.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I have said in the past I imagine the 5e warlord like a martial adept, a fighter with the martial maneuvers "White Raven" and "Devoted Spirit" from 3.5 Tome of Battle: Book of the nine Swords. And warlord subclases? One focused into stealth for undercover operations, guerrillas or ambushs, other about a magic banner in the battlefield, other about (tamed?) beast minions, other about instant-building and using constructs, traps and gadgets for sieges or tower defenses....

Some times a good way to promote a just-released new class is a new setting. For example Kara-Tur could be redesigned to give "space" for the updated version of the martial adepts (crusader, swordsage and warblade). Let's remember the handbook of psionic powers was sold better thanks Dark Sun.