D&D General 5e System Redesign through New Classes and Setting. A Thought Experiment.

[Zardnaar]

So here's what I'm thinking would be a decent place for the kind of powers the different classes get to pull out:

Martials get 4 exertion per encounter. Their class provides them abilities that cost an exertion to augment what they were already doing with a weapon attack or whatever. So you swing on your turn and add a Rider on top of it that deals more damage, pushes enemies around, whatever. For 2 exertion, you can do the thing -harder-. Doing more damage, extra targets, further distances, etc. All based on the class feature.

Arcane gets 2 spell slots per encounter. Arcane Spells tend to be more effective than what a martial gets out of 1 exertion, but similar in power to what 2 exertion does. For a straight up spellcaster class there's a whole spell list with bigger and smaller spells (Daily vs Encounter) but for Arcane characters that aren't full casters, like a Swordmage gish-tank, the spells are class abilities like the martials get, but they still get to pull their daily spells off the big spell list they share with the rest of the Arcane.

Divine gets 2 spell slots and 1 channel divinity per encounter. Channel divinity is supportive regardless of your specific class, though whether it's healing or a buff or something is both class and/or subclass specific. Spells are a little less powerful than the Arcane ones, but always have some beneficial effect separate from straight throughput.

Nature gets 3 spell slots. All their spells that deal damage also add control effects. All their control stuff is just flatly better than anyone else's controls. Spells have a similar throughput to Divine casters. Whether you're in melee, blasting AoE, or skirmishing, you're doing your best to lock people down for funsies and effectiveness!

Occultists get 2 spell slots. Again, less straight throughput from Arcane, closer to Divine. But all of their abilities provide some kind of debuff to the target. That can be some control like knockback or drag, but penalties to damage, healing, movement, attack rolls, etc are all, also, part of the schtick. Also some Curses along the way because come on, curses are important!

Psychics get 2 Psi Dice. Psi dice don't always get expended when you use them. You apply them to your powers, powers get stronger, then you roll the dice to see if you keep it. You can apply up to two psi dice to your powers, but you always risk losing them. If you do, you have to wait to get them back. If you don't lose them, you get to keep using them.

Not bad not bad.

 

[Micah Sweet]

but none of them are by D&D / WotC standards…

It’s great that they are successful by their own standards, but that qualifier also explains why WotC is not following their path

I guess. Never understood why a company like WotC can't just make a successful game that people like and pay for. It has to be number one, with all the annoying knock-on effects associated with that need.

 

[Zardnaar]

I guess. Never understood why a company like WotC can't just make a successful game that people like and pay for. It has to be number one, with all the annoying knock-on effects associated with that need.

They did make that gane. You didnt. Disconnects on you

Look at it thus way. No WorC effort you dont get youre preferred option either.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They did make that gane. You didnt. Disconnects on you

Look at it thus way. No WorC effort you dont get youre preferred option either.

It is the one thing I credit WotC for at this point: being successful enough to spawn better versions (for me) of their games from other designers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They should have a good idea after their sixth ruined campaign...

That is ridiculously hyperbolic. If your players find an encounter too difficult there is no reason for it to "ruin a campaign" or even a session. They can retreat, or surrender, or be captured. Advice that "not all combat has to be to the death" is far more productive for the DMG. And is the fight is too easy, the players have a quick "we are awesome!" session, and you know to up the difficulty next time.

 

[Corinnguard]

Eh it wasn’t casuals that killed 4e, it was dedicated players that were really angry about changes.

The problem with the move to 4e was that the entire 'home' of D&D was demolished to make way for it. Instead of keeping what worked for 3.0/3.5 and fixing what didn't work, all of it was torn down to make room for a new set of game mechanics. If WoTC stuck to a simple renovation job, half of the fans wouldn't have moved over to the 3e-adjacent home known as Pathfinder 1st edition.

Again: the perfect form of D&D already exists and it's in the Rules Cyclopedia. D&D never needed to change. If only all these D&D players who learned to play wrong could be retrained...

Tongue thoroughly in cheek

Unfortunately, everyone who likes and plays D&D is like a Tinker Gnome, we're always tinkering with it. We're always trying to perfect it somehow and we're never completely satisfied with what we have done. What we need is someone to be a Mad Tinker Gnome.

Listen, I get this is a heated debate about how useful you, personally, find CR as compared to a wholly new DM or whatever, but that's really not what this thread is about and I'd appreciate it if we could stop this particular derailment, please?

The occasional derailment of a thread due to a related side subtopic is what keeps them going. It's a feature on these forums.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Unfortunately, everyone who likes and plays D&D is like a Tinker Gnome, we're always tinkering with it.

Nah, plenty of people enjoy playing D&D without thinking or caring about the rules at all. They just tend not to talk about it on the internet.

 

[Zardnaar]

Nah, plenty of people enjoy playing D&D without thinking or caring about the rules at all. They just tend not to talk about it on the internet.

They're the vast majority imho.

 

[Corinnguard]

Nah, plenty of people enjoy playing D&D without thinking or caring about the rules at all. They just tend not to talk about it on the internet.

True. But there are those who do wonder and do think about them on and off of the internet. This forum is one such place. Sitting around an actual table in RL with your fellow players is another.

 

[Remathilis]

That is ridiculously hyperbolic. If your players find an encounter too difficult there is no reason for it to "ruin a campaign" or even a session. They can retreat, or surrender, or be captured. Advice that "not all combat has to be to the death" is far more productive for the DMG. And is the fight is too easy, the players have a quick "we are awesome!" session, and you know to up the difficulty next time.

And that alone is a lesson that comes with experience. A new DM who thinks a 1st level party can handle two ogres isn't going to have the awareness to know how to fail forward. D&D fights are lethal damage unless the DM knows to pull his punches.

There are a lot of situations where a DM can ruin his campaign: throwing an impossible fight, giving a player a magic item that is too powerful too early, underestimating PC ability and cake walking them, Monty Hauling loot, etc. The game should provide a system to at least attempt to prevent the those easy to pitfalls until they feel comfortable with experimenting.