D&D General 5e System Redesign through New Classes and Setting. A Thought Experiment.

[LuisCarlos17f]

If I try to imagine D&D style 80's vibes my mind visualizes Elmore's pictures for Dragonlance. The 2000-2010s or 3Gm (age of the third generation mobiles) was Greyhawk and the iconic class characters. Visually 4e had got a lot of Warcraft-like visual style but I can't feel inspiration to create new stories. How to explain it? Do you remember when you were a little child and you want to draw the characters of your favorite cartoon show? But you weren't interested at all about other franchises.

Greyhawk could be the best option to sell nostalgia if the redesign was right, but keeping the spirit or essence of the IP is too subjetive.

The reboot of my little pony has been a great success but it didn't sell nostalgia for G1 (first generation). It was designed to appeal the next generations of children. The popularity among lots of adults was a surprise.

* Maybe WotC would want to be the translator of 3PPs in other markets now when they are their own publishers and they have their own translator team.

* Let's remember 5e is enjoying a boom or rise of new setting thanks 3PPs with their crowdfunding campaings but they suffer the risk to fall into the oblivion when the players focus their attention on a new title, forgetting the previous ones. Here the store of D&D-Beyond could be an adventage as showcase.

* WotC is not interested into create new settings because lots of players would rather to create their own worlds. If there was one this would be Witchlight.

If WotC wanted to create a new class after the psion maybe the favorite option would be a monster-trainer like "Batlezoo" by Roll for Combat. Their previous experience about classes with special mechanics is these aren't "expansion friendly".

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah none of them circa 2008 have aged great. I've had my group play D6 Star Wars no problem.

Im thinking 3.5 HP, reduce damage blend with 4E/SWSE engine with 5E.

Yeah last time I ran SW it was basically SWSE with 5e math, and lots of talents and feats consolidated, and 5e spells style force power economy.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah last time I ran SW it was basically SWSE with 5e math, and lots of talents and feats consolidated, and 5e spells style force power economy.

That the SW5E game?

Theres SW D6 REUP as well. Fan made.

 

[FrogReaver]

No, it wouldn't really.

I'm not trying to remake 4e whole cloth. Just come up with some ideas that take the positives of that system and apply them to 5e.

... honestly I should start a Patreon and just do all this work myself... Maybe try to release something on Kickstarter in a year or two for an art budget and printing costs. Use the Patreon proceeds to commission a few pieces along the way for the kickstarter itself.

I think 4e’s best concepts applicable to pacing were
1. Healing Surges and 5 minute short rests.
2. Keeping the floor and ceiling outputs of all out dailies vs encounter powers relatively close (though maybe too close).

One could probably turn per short rest powers into encounter powers in 5e by simply halving the uses. For most classes this also raises their floor and lowers their ceiling a little.

For spells I think there’s 2 things to do.
1. Individually fix the outlier spells themselves.
2. Give some incentive for delaying casting spells in an encounter. I like the idea that if you only use a cantrip on your turn and aren’t concentrating on any other spell that your spells get treated as 1 level higher for each consecutive round you do this up to +3 spell levels higher (maybe should be +2).

One might consider boosting cantrips cast the turn after only casting a cantrip as well.

The idea is that casters will use less spells in an encounter if their spells are buffed for waiting to use them.

As a side point, this could also help true gishes be more functional. Like your fighter/wizards.

Alternatively one could make a restriction such as you can only cast spells up to 1/3 your max spell level on turn 1 and 2/3 on turn 2 and 3/3 on turn 3. Rounded up.

One recommendation for hit dice. After a 5 min rest you can use hit die to recover up to 3/4 of your hp total. An hour long short rest is required to get to 100% with them.

 

[Remathilis]

I am thoroughly convinced if 4e ran in reverse order (starting with essentials and ending up with the PHB) the game would have been better received. Essentials feels like the bridge between the older style of play and 4e's very modernistic style. As it was, the transition from 3e to 4e (especially if you weren't keeping up with late 3.5 splats like Tome of Battle) was huge. Starting with the slayer and knight would have made that thinking shift easier.

 

[payn]

I am thoroughly convinced if 4e ran in reverse order (starting with essentials and ending up with the PHB) the game would have been better received. Essentials feels like the bridge between the older style of play and 4e's very modernistic style. As it was, the transition from 3e to 4e (especially if you weren't keeping up with late 3.5 splats like Tome of Battle) was huge. Starting with the slayer and knight would have made that thinking shift easier.

It certainly wasnt for me, I dont need to go into all the reasons I disliked 4E. Though, I can agree it would have generally go over better with that approach.

 

[Remathilis]

It certainly wasnt for me, I dont need to go into all the reasons I disliked 4E. Though, I can agree it would have generally go over better with that approach.

I'm not saying that was the placebo, you could dislike it for a number of reasons. I'm just pointing out that Essentials did try to blend some of the older D&D styling into 4e and that spoonful of sugar might have helped the medicine go down better for some.

 

[FrogReaver]

I am thoroughly convinced if 4e ran in reverse order (starting with essentials and ending up with the PHB) the game would have been better received. Essentials feels like the bridge between the older style of play and 4e's very modernistic style. As it was, the transition from 3e to 4e (especially if you weren't keeping up with late 3.5 splats like Tome of Battle) was huge. Starting with the slayer and knight would have made that thinking shift easier.

Yea. I mean obviously it could have nothing to do with the content itself. I liked 4e at the time but it wasn’t for everyone and it was a huge departure of all that came before.

In some minds it’s always just the presentation, or just the order, or whatever other trivial non-content based detail that’s the flavor of the month.

Wanted to add. I liked base 4e better than essentials. Essentials felt like an apology tour. Never was a big fan of it, though admittedly that’s less to do with the content itself.

 

[payn]

I'm not saying that was the placebo, you could dislike it for a number of reasons. I'm just pointing out that Essentials did try to blend some of the older D&D styling into 4e and that spoonful of sugar might have helped the medicine go down better for some.

Yeah the approach chosen of light a match toss on bridge behind you was certainly a choice by WotC in 2008.

 

[GobHag]

I am thoroughly convinced if 4e ran in reverse order (starting with essentials and ending up with the PHB) the game would have been better received. Essentials feels like the bridge between the older style of play and 4e's very modernistic style. As it was, the transition from 3e to 4e (especially if you weren't keeping up with late 3.5 splats like Tome of Battle) was huge. Starting with the slayer and knight would have made that thinking shift easier.

Have we seen any 'Essentials-like' style of design in other games though? I think maybe it's 13th age like?