D&D 5E 5e Updates: Monstrous Compendium

[Chalice]

Sure, will you be able to give some feedback by Monday? I am going to release to everyone on Tuesday, I'm just trying to get some feedback / editing help before then.

Hopefully. A bit busy this weekend, but with any luck, I will.

 

[dave2008]

Dave, could I DM you some of my monster designs to discuss? We have different goals and etc, but I always love talking shop with other monster designers, and I really enjoy your style!

Absolutely! There are few things that I like to do more than talk about monsters!

 

[dave2008]

Hopefully. A bit busy this weekend, but with any luck, I will.

I just sent it to you

 

[dave2008]

In response to the recent leak of Zargon from the "The Lost City" adventure in the upcoming "Quest of the Infinite Staircase," I give you a somewhat revised and buffed Elder Evil - Zargon!

Most of the fluff is copy pasted from other sources and the statblock uses my custom version of the 2024 monster statblock format. Anyway - I hope you enjoy!

 

[Stalker0]

In response to the recent leak of Zargon from the "The Lost City" adventure in the upcoming "Quest of the Infinite Staircase," I give you a somewhat revised and buffed Elder Evil - Zargon!

Most of the fluff is copy pasted from other sources and the statblock uses my custom version of the 2024 monster statblock format. Anyway - I hope you enjoy!

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View attachment 370449

In general I like a lot of what this guy is packing. The anti-magic gore is pretty cool, always a good way to trip up higher level parties. I like the concept of defiant essence a lot more than legendary resistance.

My only critiques:
1) Acidic Slime (lair action). 2d6 is so little damage that I would recommend (removing the save, just say any character not under cover or something), and just make the area the entire lair. Now its "only" 2d6 damage, but its damage they always take no matter where they go (unless they hide under cover). That gives it a fear factor even though the damage is quite small.

2) Slime Spray: Personally I would just remove this effect and add a touch of damage elsewhere. This isn't worth tracking a reaction and a saving throw for again such a little amount of damage. The other reaction is solid, I think that's all you really need.


All of that said, I don't see how this guys a CR18 with hitpoints and AC that low. He doesn't really have that many defensive abilities. I get maybe a CR17 at best, and again that is using the standard system which frankly over CRs all high CR creatures anyway

 

[dave2008]

In general I like a lot of what this guy is packing. The anti-magic gore is pretty cool, always a good way to trip up higher level parties. I like the concept of defiant essence a lot more than legendary resistance.

My only critiques:
1) Acidic Slime (lair action). 2d6 is so little damage that I would recommend (removing the save, just say any character not under cover or something), and just make the area the entire lair. Now its "only" 2d6 damage, but its damage they always take no matter where they go (unless they hide under cover). That gives it a fear factor even though the damage is quite small.

2) Slime Spray: Personally I would just remove this effect and add a touch of damage elsewhere. This isn't worth tracking a reaction and a saving throw for again such a little amount of damage. The other reaction is solid, I think that's all you really need.


All of that said, I don't see how this guys a CR18 with hitpoints and AC that low. He doesn't really have that many defensive abilities. I get maybe a CR17 at best, and again that is using the standard system which frankly over CRs all high CR creatures anyway

I didn't put a lot of thought into this one. It is basically a mash-up of the WotC 5e version and the Goodman Games 5e version. with a dash of my own spice.

Regarding the CR: the WotC version is CR 17 and does less damage than this one (quite a bit less). However, I did just check the math again and it is coming out:

Defensive CR: 17
Offensive CR: 19
Total CR: 18

It is a low 18, so if I do another pass I will probably up the damage a bit. But it is a solid CR 18, not a rounded up CR 17.5.

 

[Stalker0]

I didn't put a lot of thought into this one. It is basically a mash-up of the WotC 5e version and the Goodman Games 5e version. with a dash of my own spice.

Regarding the CR: the WotC version is CR 17 and does less damage than this one (quite a bit less). However, I did just check the math again and it is coming out:

Defensive CR: 17
Offensive CR: 19
Total CR: 18

It is a low 18, so if I do another pass I will probably up the damage a bit. But it is a solid CR 18, not a rounded up CR 17.5.

I'm getting a defensive CR of 15 when I use the calculator for 275 HP and 18 AC and 3-4 save proficiences

 

[dave2008]

I'm getting a defensive CR of 15 when I use the calculator for 275 HP and 18 AC and 3-4 save proficiences

I don't give my monsters legendary resistance, but I give them the ability to end a negative effect or condition at the start of their turn. That isn't something that is in the DMG calculator so I have to improvise how that affects CR. I currently have it provide the effect of having 1 legendary resistance (+30 effective HP for CR 17+). That is likely the difference we are seeing. If you have another suggestion for how to accommodate that defensive ability, let me know!

PS - I as able to bump Zargon's HP to 287 with making a change to CR.

 

[Stalker0]

I don't give my monsters legendary resistance, but I give them the ability to end a negative effect or condition at the start of their turn. That isn't something that is in the DMG calculator so I have to improvise how that affects CR. I currently have it provide the effect of having 1 legendary resistance (+30 effective HP for CR 17+). That is likely the difference we are seeing. If you have another suggestion for how to accommodate that defensive ability, let me know!

PS - I as able to bump Zargon's HP to 287 with making a change to CR.

Ah ok that makes sense. yeah its an interesting question. Removing conditions is nice, but at those levels even just one key condition gets applied for even 1 round it can be game over for the creature. But considering you are only treating it as a single LR....that seems fair to me.

This creature also doesn't have magic resistance which is pretty common at this level, likely I would expect the monster to rely on its reactions to try and knock out spells as its principal defense mechanism, but that also means its doing less damage with the slime spray (and if my choice is doing 7 damage to one target or maintain a possible protection against a crippling spell that is no choice at all at that level, which is the other reason I recommended just dropping slime spray and adding the damage to the base attacks, I think this monster is reliant on those reactions to give it key magic defense

 

[dave2008]

This creature also doesn't have magic resistance which is pretty common at this level, likely I would expect the monster to rely on its reactions to try and knock out spells as its principal defense mechanism, but that also means its doing less damage with the slime spray (and if my choice is doing 7 damage to one target or maintain a possible protection against a crippling spell that is no choice at all at that level, which is the other reason I recommended just dropping slime spray and adding the damage to the base attacks, I think this monster is reliant on those reactions to give it key magic defense

That is a good point. I was surprised it didn't have magic resistance, but its reaction pretty much eliminates the need for it. I think remove the damage and adding somewhere else is a good idea.