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D&D 5E 5e Updates: Mythic, Epic, and Hardcore Monsters

dave2008

Legend
Rog
(by thirteenspades w/ revisions by Dave2008)
The mighty rogs were created by the Prince of Undeath to command his undead armies for he no longer trusted the schemes of the balors and other might demon vassals.
Rog.jpg


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Rog
Large fiend (demon), chaotic evil
1600558025866.png

Armor Class 18 (natural armor)
Hit Points 351 (26d10 + 208)
Speed 40 ft., fly 80 ft.
1600558028185.png

STRDEXCONINTWISCHA
26 (+8)18 (+4)26 (+8)22 (+6)20 (+5)21 (+5)
1600558029351.png

Savings Throws Str +14, Dex +8, Con +12, Wis +9
Skills Arcana +10, Athletics +14, Intimidation +17,
Damage Resistances cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks
Damage Immunities necrotic, poison
Condition Immunities charmed, exhaustion, frightened, poisoned
Senses blindsight 180 ft., truesight 120 ft., passive Perception 20
Languages Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Infernal, telepathy 240 ft.
Challenge 20 (25,000 XP)
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Death's Call. Creatures within 90 feet of the rog have disadvantage on death saving throws.

Innate Spellcasting. The rog’s spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC 19, +11 to hit with spell attacks). The rog can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components.

At will: charm person, chill touch (see "Actions"), detect magic, dispel magic, fear
3/day each: animate dead, counterspell, greater invisibility, teleport
1/day each: create undead, finger of death

Magic Resistance. The rog has advantage on saving throws against spells and magical effects and any creature that makes a spell attack against the rog has disadvantage on the attack roll.

Magic Weapons. The rog’s weapon attacks are magical.

Marshal Undead. Unless the rog is incapacitated, undead creatures of its choice within 90 feet of it have advantage on saving throws against features that turn undead

Obscene Magic (2/Short Rest). The rog can use a bonus action to cast an at will spell.

Reactive. The rog can take one reaction on every turn in a combat, but only one can be used for its Chomp action.

Reanimation. Any creature killed by the rog is reanimated. as in the spell animate dead, at the end of the creatures next turn. The creatures are animated as zombie versions of their creature type.

Unstoppable (3/Short Rest). The rog can use a reaction, take 30 hit points of damage, and end one condition or effect it is suffering.

ACTIONS
Multiattack.
The rog makes three attacks: any combination of two claw or tentacle attacks and one bite attack.

Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 18 (3d6 + 8) slashing damage and 11 (2d10) poison damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 19 Constitution saving throw or be diseased. The diseased target can't regain hit points, and its hit point maximum decreases by 10 (3d6) for every 24 hours that elapse. If the disease reduces the target's hit point maximum to 0, the target dies.. The curse lasts until removed by the remove curse spell or other similarly powerful magic.

Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 18 (3d6 + 8) bludgeoning damage plus 11 (2d10) necrotic damage. The target's hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the necrotic damage taken. The reduction lasts until the target finishes a long rest. The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0.

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 24 (3d10 + 8) piercing damage and the target must make a DC 18 Strength saving throw or be grappled. If he target is a Medium or smaller creature, as long as it is grappled this way it is also restrained.

Chill Touch. Ranged Spell Attack: +11 to hit, range 60 ft., one target. Hit: 16 (4d8) necrotic damage and the target can’t regain hit points until the start of the rog's next turn.

Icy Soul (Recharge 5-6). The rog becomes incorporeal and moves up to is flying speed. When it moves this way it can move through other creatures and objects. The first time it enters a creatures space during this movement, the creature musts make a DC 19 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (4d10) necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one. Additionally, the rog regains hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt.

REACTIONS
Chomp.
If a creature ends its turned grappled by the rog, the rog can make a bite attack targeting the grappled creature.

Parry Missile. The rog adds 5 to its AC against a ranged attack that would hit it. To do so, the rog must see the attacker.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
My comments inline

First, thank you as always for the comments. Before I get started with my response I want to explain that I want this balor to be bruiser, a "brute" in 4e terms. A simple heavy hitter. Not every high CR demon needs a bunch of tricks, IMO.

--I think this may be part of the problem, there's an expectation set with a Balor that this is going against the grain on. Balors have traditionally been intelligent tacticians that use ranged attacks and spells to thwart their enemies, they don't just run in and "wreck shop". For example, if we look at the Goristro you just made, an int of 6. This guy is a dump brute. The Balor.... int 21.... he's a thinker, a tactician, not a bruiser. So I think your working against some legacy flavor there.

First I disagree, personally this one of the features I have always hated about the balor. However, to be honest, in 5e it is a CR thing. I checked the CR of the MM balor and the 70 avg damage of its death throes has a huge impact on its CR. That is why its regular attacks are so pathetic. I would much rather make the regular attacks stronger and death throes weaker. I would have eliminated it all together, but I felt it was kinda icon to the balor.

--Fair point, let me offer an alternative that may both minimize the CR impact, keep the ability, and make it an even more interesting and unique ability.

"Death Throes: When a Balor dies, its essence decays away until only an explosive fiery core is left. This core counts as a Delayed Blast Fireball. After 2 rounds, the spell detonates."

So for a 1 balor vs party encounter, the death throes is just a showoff power. The party runs away from the center, a few rounds later a big explosion occurs, party is thankful they weren't in the middle of that.

But in a larger battle this becomes a lot more interesting. Basically a literally bomb is now sitting in the fight, maybe the party runs from it, maybe they use the bomb as a weapon against their enemies....maybe a suicidal demon tries to touch the core and set it off early. It creates an immediate unique battle experience very rarely seen in 5e in the same way.

Noted this way, you could probably reduce its damage impact on the CR.



Personally I thought you would like "Death Strike." It is essentially an at will power word kill. Maybe I should eliminate the attack roll:sneaky:

--I think my initial issue with death strike is that I was substituting 2 powerful attacks (with 3 triple damage crits) for an ability that was either kill at 75 hp, or do just 75 damage. It actually felt like the main weapon would do more damage in general. However, the upgrade being at 100, its definately scarier.
 

dave2008

Legend
Thanks again, my responses below!
I think this may be part of the problem, there's an expectation set with a Balor that this is going against the grain on. Balors have traditionally been intelligent tacticians that use ranged attacks and spells to thwart their enemies, they don't just run in and "wreck shop". For example, if we look at the Goristro you just made, an int of 6. This guy is a dump brute. The Balor.... int 21.... he's a thinker, a tactician, not a bruiser. So I think your working against some legacy flavor there.
I don't know. The MM lore and specifically the stat blocks in 1e, 4e, and 5e paint a different picture IMO. I mean in 4e it was literally a "brute." Maybe it was different on 2e & 3e (I didn't play those editions), but I don't think there is a lot to suggest the were subtly, willy, and varied combatants. However, it is worth noting that this is a Balor Executioner. We can always make a Balor Warlord or something that is a tactician.

For reference, here is the lore for MM entry for each edition. I see more that supports my take than contradicts it, but we all see what we want to see.
1e
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2e
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1600562829979.png

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3e
1600562935332.png

4e
1600562638398.png

1600562664231.png

5e
1600562603943.png

--Fair point, let me offer an alternative that may both minimize the CR impact, keep the ability, and make it an even more interesting and unique ability.

"Death Throes: When a Balor dies, its essence decays away until only an explosive fiery core is left. This core counts as a Delayed Blast Fireball. After 2 rounds, the spell detonates."

So for a 1 balor vs party encounter, the death throes is just a showoff power. The party runs away from the center, a few rounds later a big explosion occurs, party is thankful they weren't in the middle of that.

But in a larger battle this becomes a lot more interesting. Basically a literally bomb is now sitting in the fight, maybe the party runs from it, maybe they use the bomb as a weapon against their enemies....maybe a suicidal demon tries to touch the core and set it off early. It creates an immediate unique battle experience very rarely seen in 5e in the same way.

Noted this way, you could probably reduce its damage impact on the CR.
I like that as a good compromise. I think I can justify removing the CR cost completely with something like that. Now I can add some damage somewhere else:unsure:
--I think my initial issue with death strike is that I was substituting 2 powerful attacks (with 3 triple damage crits) for an ability that was either kill at 75 hp, or do just 75 damage. It actually felt like the main weapon would do more damage in general. However, the upgrade being at 100, its definately scarier.
I also removed the to hit roll. It is automatic death/damage now.

PS. The 75 is one point less then if it hits with is whip and sword.
 
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dave2008

Legend
--Fair point, let me offer an alternative that may both minimize the CR impact, keep the ability, and make it an even more interesting and unique ability.
I have revised the balor's death throws. Let me know what you think.

PS I made some other adjustments too.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
I have revised the balor's death throws. Let me know what you think.

PS I made some other adjustments too.

I like it! While you lose the suicide demon activation that I like, you also gain a fun "hot potato" concept, where the party (or an insidious demon), could move the bomb (I mean body:) ) around to shake up the battlefield. That's neat, its something players will absolutely remember when they fight this guy.

I do think the language needs a few tweaks, it may seem obvious, but we need to ensure the DM understands that the balor is actually "dead" in this context. So I would add something like "When the balor reaches 0 hitpoints, after its Elite Trait has been activated, the balor dies. All of its abilities stop functioning, its weapons are destroyed, and yada yada. "

If you like this concept we could push the idea of "death causing infernal heat within the balor" a little more. You could make the fire aura an elite ability, representing that death stokes an intense fire within the balor. Something like....

Chaos Lord: If the balor is reduced to 0 hit points, it doesn’t die or fall unconscious. Instead, all conditions and effects it is suffering end for it, it regains 275 hit points, all of its abilities recharge, and it can use elite actions. The balor begins to glow red hot, and it gains the Fire Aura ability.

Then you double the damage of the aura (or whatever makes sense for CR). So flavorwise every time the balor dies the fire within in it is stoked. The first death causes a wave of intense fire....the second death is so much that it causes an explosion. Its a way to add a little escalation that has some fun flavor to it.

The Chaos Bolt is good, needs just a little proofing, there are several typos in there.

That longsword damage is SCARY! One thing I always lament in 5e is that at higher levels (heck I see it by 5th level), is that the death threshold for players is so large its never really an option, its always down to the death saves. But the crit on this guy is hoss, that damage could actually be enough to kill someone who was close to 0 originally. Between that and the death strike, players are very incentiized to keep their people healthy....which again shakes up things from the normal combat routine.

Yeah this guy is coming along nicely :)
 

dave2008

Legend
I like it! While you lose the suicide demon activation that I like, you also gain a fun "hot potato" concept, where the party (or an insidious demon), could move the bomb (I mean body:) ) around to shake up the battlefield. That's neat, its something players will absolutely remember when they fight this guy.

I do think the language needs a few tweaks, it may seem obvious, but we need to ensure the DM understands that the balor is actually "dead" in this context. So I would add something like "When the balor reaches 0 hitpoints, after its Elite Trait has been activated, the balor dies. All of its abilities stop functioning, its weapons are destroyed, and yada yada. "

If you like this concept we could push the idea of "death causing infernal heat within the balor" a little more. You could make the fire aura an elite ability, representing that death stokes an intense fire within the balor. Something like....

Chaos Lord: If the balor is reduced to 0 hit points, it doesn’t die or fall unconscious. Instead, all conditions and effects it is suffering end for it, it regains 275 hit points, all of its abilities recharge, and it can use elite actions. The balor begins to glow red hot, and it gains the Fire Aura ability.

Then you double the damage of the aura (or whatever makes sense for CR). So flavorwise every time the balor dies the fire within in it is stoked. The first death causes a wave of intense fire....the second death is so much that it causes an explosion. Its a way to add a little escalation that has some fun flavor to it.

The Chaos Bolt is good, needs just a little proofing, there are several typos in there.

That longsword damage is SCARY! One thing I always lament in 5e is that at higher levels (heck I see it by 5th level), is that the death threshold for players is so large its never really an option, its always down to the death saves. But the crit on this guy is hoss, that damage could actually be enough to kill someone who was close to 0 originally. Between that and the death strike, players are very incentiized to keep their people healthy....which again shakes up things from the normal combat routine.

Yeah this guy is coming along nicely :)
Thank you as always for the comments. Following your suggestions I made a few tweaks and cleaned some things up. I could do more with the fire aura (as you suggest), but I went simple so I didn't to recalculate anything at this time. I may revisit this later, but I need to move on for a bit. Thanks again!
 

Stalker0

Legend
Klurichir
Challenge
19 (22,000 XP)

Any creature that prevents healing is already nasty, and that curse power is going to put some fear in players. However, his lack of combat teleports (teleport the spell has 25% chance to put you off course even if you can see the spot...so its always risky to use tactically), means that the party can use mobility to try and stay out of his effects....which again shakes things up.

I agree that the bite thing took some reading to really understand...the bonus action still doesn't make it that competitive but when you read the swallow reaction then I was like (ooooooooh, ok).

Honestly I'm wondering if his guy actually has too much (possibly because my immediate reaction to this guy is he is a great support for another demon). I mean he's got a nasty aura, a nasty curse, some decently nasty spells (weird is actually a terrible spell, but I guess thematically I could see a demon using it to torment lesser people, but I would rarely use it in combat), but banishment is always solid. I'm wondering if he needs the whole swallow and bite mechanics and all of that. I could just see you remove the claw, and use pinchers with more damage and grapple...with no bite or swalow mechanics.

I think this guy does the job of being a solid threat for his CR, he looks scary, but I also think you could tidy him up a bit and he'd likely still come across as a big threat.
 


Mirtek

Adventurer
Some of your deities have an (avatar) tag while some don't. The avatars don't seem to be any weaker than the true deities wihtout that tag. Is that supposed to have a special meaning or just a leftover from different stages of work in progress?
 

Stalker0

Legend
Noting on the Vargouille Swarm.

"If the swarm is reduced to 63 hit points or less, replace the swarm with five vargouilles in unoccupied spaces within the former area of the swarm; or the swarm loses its Swarm Resistance trait. "

This language could be a little confusing as it doesn't really tell the DM they have a choice. I would make a slight tweak in language:

"If the swarm is reduced to 63 hit points or less, choose 1: Replace the swarm with five vargouilles in unoccupied spaces within the former area of the swarm, or keep the current statistics, but remove the Swarm Resistance trait. "
 

dave2008

Legend
Some of your deities have an (avatar) tag while some don't. The avatars don't seem to be any weaker than the true deities wihtout that tag. Is that supposed to have a special meaning or just a leftover from different stages of work in progress?
The only one that had that tag was Tiamat and that was a mistake. It was the first one I ported to this thread and I wasn't sure how I was going to proceed. I have made that decision now and I have changed her tag to "lesser deity." Thank you for reminding me!

FYI, the avatar of a deity would just be its first stage (all deities will be mythic). So if you just want Timat's avatar, don't use the mythic trait and you're good to go.

Also, there will be another, more powerful, version of Tiamat in the future. That was another reason I had this one tag as an avatar.
 

dave2008

Legend
Noting on the Vargouille Swarm.

"If the swarm is reduced to 63 hit points or less, replace the swarm with five vargouilles in unoccupied spaces within the former area of the swarm; or the swarm loses its Swarm Resistance trait. "

This language could be a little confusing as it doesn't really tell the DM they have a choice. I would make a slight tweak in language:

"If the swarm is reduced to 63 hit points or less, choose 1: Replace the swarm with five vargouilles in unoccupied spaces within the former area of the swarm, or keep the current statistics, but remove the Swarm Resistance trait. "
Love it - thanks! Just in time to as I am going to make a few more swarms.
 

dave2008

Legend
Klurichir
Challenge
19 (22,000 XP)

Any creature that prevents healing is already nasty, and that curse power is going to put some fear in players. However, his lack of combat teleports (teleport the spell has 25% chance to put you off course even if you can see the spot...so its always risky to use tactically), means that the party can use mobility to try and stay out of his effects....which again shakes things up.

I agree that the bite thing took some reading to really understand...the bonus action still doesn't make it that competitive but when you read the swallow reaction then I was like (ooooooooh, ok).

Honestly I'm wondering if his guy actually has too much (possibly because my immediate reaction to this guy is he is a great support for another demon). I mean he's got a nasty aura, a nasty curse, some decently nasty spells (weird is actually a terrible spell, but I guess thematically I could see a demon using it to torment lesser people, but I would rarely use it in combat), but banishment is always solid. I'm wondering if he needs the whole swallow and bite mechanics and all of that. I could just see you remove the claw, and use pinchers with more damage and grapple...with no bite or swalow mechanics.

I think this guy does the job of being a solid threat for his CR, he looks scary, but I also think you could tidy him up a bit and he'd likely still come across as a big threat.
I gave it Abyssal Step, a 60' teleport bonus action. Though I would really like to find a different way for things to move without having to resort to teleport all the time. Maybe a bonus action Dash that doesn't provoke OA? I don't know. I will think about it.
 

Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
I gave it Abyssal Step, a 60' teleport bonus action. Though I would really like to find a different way for things to move without having to resort to teleport all the time. Maybe a bonus action Dash that doesn't provoke OA? I don't know. I will think about it.
Many monsters in 4e had something like that. Just introduce it.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I gave it Abyssal Step, a 60' teleport bonus action. Though I would really like to find a different way for things to move without having to resort to teleport all the time. Maybe a bonus action Dash that doesn't provoke OA? I don't know. I will think about it.

hehe I think you misunderstood me. I considered the lack of a tactical teleport a feature of the design, not a negative. It was a monster that tactically the party wants to stay away from, as that its weakness. In melee its very dangerous.

But if you do want more mobility, adding teleport to demons is not bad flavorwise, many abyssal creatures have had teleports in the past. And honesty, that's just the way it goes in level 15+ combats....wall spells, spheres, forcecages, restrains....there are so many ways to just remove a unit from the fight unless they have teleport like abilities.
 


Matrix Sorcica

Adventurer
I actually meant a move that doesn't provoke O
I will, but I want more tools in my toolbox that produce similar results. But the tactical teleport is definitely one I will add.
I meant a move that doesn't provoke OA, but of course one doesn't exclude the other.

Edit: pretty sure we agree. You will introduce several ways to tactically move. Tactical teleport will be one for certain. Check.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
I had 2 thoughts on the balor death throw. The first is you could change it so instead of being a fireball, it opens a 30-foot-wide fiery portal to the Abyss for 1 minute. Portals to the Abyss don't add anything to the offensive CR, but unless the PC's can block the portal, a whole lot of demons could come through.

Another thought is that the balor could trigger the death throw at will, dying but being reborn in the same (or closest open) spot in say 1d4 days. The balor could wade into melee combat, suicide bomb the PC's if they are all close, and let its minions come in to pick the bones, all knowing it will be back shortly. I think that changes the dynamic to make the balor more of a leader (since the tactic works best if it has some flunkies).
 

dave2008

Legend
I had 2 thoughts on the balor death throw. The first is you could change it so instead of being a fireball, it opens a 30-foot-wide fiery portal to the Abyss for 1 minute. Portals to the Abyss don't add anything to the offensive CR, but unless the PC's can block the portal, a whole lot of demons could come through.

Another thought is that the balor could trigger the death throw at will, dying but being reborn in the same (or closest open) spot in say 1d4 days. The balor could wade into melee combat, suicide bomb the PC's if they are all close, and let its minions come in to pick the bones, all knowing it will be back shortly. I think that changes the dynamic to make the balor more of a leader (since the tactic works best if it has some flunkies).
I like the portal idea, I could look into that. However, I need to take a break from the Type VI for a while. I've spent to much time go over as it is.
 

dave2008

Legend
Vrock Chaos Squadron
Gargantuan swarm of large fiends, chaotic evil
1600449188022.png

Armor Class 15 (natural armor)
Hit Points 841 (58d20 + 232)
Speed 40 ft., fly 60 ft.
1600449189124.png

STRDEXCONINTWISCHA
17 (+3)15 (+2)18 (+4)8 (-1)13 (+1)8 (-1)
1600449190520.png

Saving Throws Dex +10, Wis +9, Cha +7
Skills Acrobatics +10, Perception +9
Damage Resistances cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning piercing and slashing that is nonmagical
Damage Immunities poison
Condition Immunities poisoned; see Swarm Resistance
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 19
Languages Abyssal, telepathy 120 ft.
Challenge 23 (50,000 XP)
1600449191753.png

Colossal. The swarm's space is 40-feet by 40-feet.

Legendary Spores. Any creature that starts their turn in the squadron or within 15 feet of the squadron is infected by spores. While infected the target is poisoned and takes 10 poison damage at the start of each of it turns, including the turn it was infected. The target can make a DC 19 Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success.

Swarm. The squadron can occupy another creature’s space and vice versa, and the squadron can move through any opening large enough for a Large vrock. If the squadron is reduced to 630 hit points or less change its space to 35-feet by 35-feet and it loses one use of its legendary actions and 1 reaction. If the squadron is reduced to 420 hit points or less change its size to 25-feet by 25-feet and it loses an additional use of its legendary actions and another reaction. If the squadron is reduced to 210 hit points or less, choose: 1) replace the squadron with two vrocks in unoccupied spaces within the former area of the swarm, or 2) reduce the size to Gargantuan and keep the current statistics, but remove the Swarm Resistance trait.

Swarm Reactions. The squadron does not have reactions. Whenever a creature moves inside the space of the squadron or out of the space of the squadron, the squadron makes one pike attack with advantage targeting the triggering creature.

Swarm Resistance. The squadron has advantage on saving throws against being blinded, paralyzed, petrified, prone, restrained, or stunned. Additionally, the squadron can use its legendary actions to immediately end one condition or effect it is suffering per legendary action spent.

Swarm Tactics. The squadron has advantage on attack rolls and saving throws against a creature if it is occupying the same space as the squadron.

Swarm Vulnerabilities. The squadron takes double damage from any attack that effects any area that is 15 feet by 15 feet or greater.

Unstoppable (3/Short Rest). The squadron can use a reaction to take 30 hit points of damage and end one condition or effect it is suffering.

ACTIONS
Multiattack. The squadron has the following attack options:
  • four pike attacks.
  • two beak and two talon
  • two pike attacks and stunning shriek attack
  • one beak and one talon attack and one stunning shriek attack
  • two spores or stunning shriek attacks.
Beak. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3) piercing damage.

Talons. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d10 + 3) slashing damage.

Pike. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d10 + 3) piercing damage.

Stunning Shriek (8/Day). The squadron emits a horrific screech. Each creature within 20 feet of it that can hear it and that isn't a demon must succeed on a DC 19 Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of the squadron's next turn.

LEGENDARY ACTIONS
The swarm can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turn. The swarm regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.

Multiattack. The swarm uses its multiattack action.
Move. The swarm moves up to 15 feet.
Coordinate Shriek (Costs 3 Actions). The swarm makes a cacophonous Stunning Shriek attack. The range is increased to 60 feet and the targets have disadvantage on the saving throw. This attack requires six uses of its Stunning Shriek action.
 
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