5e what would you do?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually, it did make sense--the magazine market is suffering a severe downturn. In its last full year for which circulation figures were publicly released (January 2006 and January 2007 issues), Dragon lost about 15% to 20% of its circulation, and that was four years ago now. I suspect that even if the magazines weren't losing money, WotC saw the writing on the wall and got on when they could.

Here's at least one problem with that: WotC didn't simply stop producing a physical magazine in favor of digital; they actually ended a licensing agreement with Paizo to produce the magazines.

I don't know the details of that license in particular, but that kind if a agreement basically works one of two ways. Either WotC was just paying Paizo to print the magazine, which is unlikely unless Paizo had bargained for other rights that wouldn't be covered by a simple agreement to print, or Paizo had paid WotC for a more typical license in which they'd produce the magazines and keep whatever profits they made.

And if it's the latter, that means WotC decided to go into digital self-publishing while ending an agreement that meant they got paid whether the magazines were profitable or not.

 

[lordxaviar]

Here's at least one problem with that: WotC didn't simply stop producing a physical magazine in favor of digital; they actually ended a licensing agreement with Paizo to produce the magazines.

I don't know the details of that license in particular, but that kind if a agreement basically works one of two ways. Either WotC was just paying Paizo to print the magazine, which is unlikely unless Paizo had bargained for other rights that wouldn't be covered by a simple agreement to print, or Paizo had paid WotC for a more typical license in which they'd produce the magazines and keep whatever profits they made.

And if it's the latter, that means WotC decided to go into digital self-publishing while ending an agreement that meant they got paid whether the magazines were profitable or not.

I think that hasbro... (it is hasbro WotC is gone its just a front) was just looking to consolidate so that all the profits would be theirs. With digital sales they were loosing out on too much or so they thought.

 

[Bluenose]

Here's at least one problem with that: WotC didn't simply stop producing a physical magazine in favor of digital; they actually ended a licensing agreement with Paizo to produce the magazines.

I don't know the details of that license in particular, but that kind if a agreement basically works one of two ways. Either WotC was just paying Paizo to print the magazine, which is unlikely unless Paizo had bargained for other rights that wouldn't be covered by a simple agreement to print, or Paizo had paid WotC for a more typical license in which they'd produce the magazines and keep whatever profits they made.

And if it's the latter, that means WotC decided to go into digital self-publishing while ending an agreement that meant they got paid whether the magazines were profitable or not.

The agreement had a duration attached to it. It ran out. WotC extended it slightly to let Paizo complete the adventure path Dungeon was running at the time.

 

[Sadrik]

Stripping the core game down to be played without a grid would be important to me as a purchaser of a D&D 5e.

However, play on a grid is an extremely important aspect of the game to many. So I would include that in the first supplement: Miniatures Handbook or whatever it should be called. The core game should not require so much paraphernalia just to play.

Simple intuitive system with mechanics that can be applied to a broad number of situations (not one rule for one situation only). It can be easily done. A focus on fluff, not crunch. I would rather have one feat that covers twelve feats with the variability for it to represent those twelve feat (example: spring attack, ride by attack, fly by attack and others).

Let the DMG really focus on the imagination of the DM and how they want to build their campaign world for a unique game. DMG should have a tremendous number of optional rules for the DM to apply to the game so that they own their game. Something like Unearthed Arcana but stripped down to several core options (miniature battles being one of them).

A basic character sheet is one side of a piece of paper.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

This discussion is about 5th edition. That's more like 12th edition. The technology you are talking about will not exist even 50 years from now. How would such a system handle "I go up to the nearest farmer and ask him what his favorite pie is." Randomly generating the face/clothes/etc of a random farmer takes far more CPU today that you think it does. Do you know why even modern cartoons are voiced by live people? Because tech to render human sounding voices are far more expensive then calling up Tom Hanks to play a 50s marionette based toy.

It takes hundreds of human animators 2 years to make a Pixar movie. Think about that.

I wasn't talking about a computer running the game FOR you, and I stated to the effect that it wouldn't facilitate anything approaching roleplaying (but I guess I didn't make that clear). Most existing 2D MMO's provide only limited choices for initial customization of character appearance but some hinge upon it (City of Heroes, Champions Online) so it's quite doable. And I'm not talking about a movie - I'm talking about limited, non-animated 3D graphical representation of characters and environments. A certain amount of animation would be fun but isn't any more necessary than it is for animating plastic minis or 2D cardboard tiles.

Given modular construction tools (which would certainly be quite similar to those used by fans for designing custom levels for FPS games) a wide variety of the 3D equivalent to at least basic dungeon and outdoor environment "tiles" could be assembled for use with 3D TV's and a virtual tabletop system of some kind. Additional customization of character appearance beyond basics can wait if necessary. All the system has to do to be ready for release is to display and identify individual creatures in a 3D environment, then track and display data regarding those individuals. NOTE: it doesn't have to BE 3D as far as the virtual tabletop is really concerned - it just has to LOOK 3D for the cool factor. If you can display a 3D still from Avatar on your 3D TV from a picture file and have it LOOK 3D then you don't need your computer to be overheating trying to CREATE 3D information - it's just displaying it.

Besides, 3D tv's EXIST and play 3D movies. How long do you REALLY think it's going to be before we have 3D games to play on those TV's? 50 years? If you can take 2D movies and fool the viewer into seeing 3D on a TV then it ISN'T that big a step to take 2D video games and make them look 3D as well. Again, they don't have to BE 3D - they just need to LOOK 3D and there is a world of distinction between the two. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt it may not be tomorrow, but it WON'T be 50 years from now. The one benefit of living in the 21st Century instead of the late 20th is the rapid pace of ever-cooler toys appearing.

 

[Lanefan]

Given modular construction tools (which would certainly be quite similar to those used by fans for designing custom levels for FPS games) a wide variety of the 3D equivalent to at least basic dungeon and outdoor environment "tiles" could be assembled for use with 3D TV's and a virtual tabletop system of some kind. Additional customization of character appearance beyond basics can wait if necessary. All the system has to do to be ready for release is to display and identify individual creatures in a 3D environment, then track and display data regarding those individuals.

Which sounds reasonable in theory. In practice, I shudder to think what effect it'll have on DM prep time - you'll have to do pretty much everything you do now (possible exception: pre-programmed generic monsters) plus program it all into the system and try to customize the result to your taste. And then hope like hell the players/PCs don't suddenly decide in mid-session to leave the adventure you've prepped and go off on a different quest...

Lan-"there is no such thing as a computer program without limits"-efan

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The agreement had a duration attached to it. It ran out. WotC extended it slightly to let Paizo complete the adventure path Dungeon was running at the time.

I knew that.

The fault lies in my imprecise language. I should have said: "...WotC elected not to renew an agreement that meant they got paid whether the magazines were profitable or not."

BTW, this is not an indictment of WotC. It's highly probable that they're making more money with the electronic versions of the magazines than they did from the Paizo licensing deal.

 

[jmucchiello]

I'm talking about limited, non-animated 3D graphical representation of characters and environments.

I didn't see anything about non-animated.

Given modular construction tools (which would certainly be quite similar to those used by fans for designing custom levels for FPS games) a wide variety of the 3D equivalent to at least basic dungeon and outdoor environment "tiles" could be assembled for use with 3D TV's and a virtual tabletop system of some kind.

Yes, we saw how well wizards did doing this on 2D screens. Should be simple moving that tech to 3D.

If you can display a 3D still from Avatar on your 3D TV from a picture file and have it LOOK 3D then you don't need your computer to be overheating trying to CREATE 3D information - it's just displaying it.

Avatar was filmed with special cameras to create 3D environments then every frame of film was rendered twice and recomposed into the 3D media. That rendering did NOT take place in real time. It took thousands of hours for professional animators to create the models and hundreds of hours for computer to process them into a 2 hour film. Remember what I said about Pixar films, it also applies to graphics intense films like Avatar.

Besides, 3D tv's EXIST and play 3D movies. How long do you REALLY think it's going to be before we have 3D games to play on those TV's? 50 years? If you can take 2D movies and fool the viewer into seeing 3D on a TV then it ISN'T that big a step to take 2D video games and make them look 3D as well. Again, they don't have to BE 3D - they just need to LOOK 3D and there is a world of distinction between the two. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt it may not be tomorrow, but it WON'T be 50 years from now. The one benefit of living in the 21st Century instead of the late 20th is the rapid pace of ever-cooler toys appearing.

No, of course it won't be 50 years. That was for full animation in real time for realistic models dumbed down for amateur animators. Remember the difference - Avatar models are only animated to do what the script requires and no more. They are created by professional 3D artists. And it still took over 2 years to make. Full freedom of motion, full freedom of control, real-time animation will take a bit longer. Maybe with a Kinect you can cut that down to 25 years if people where a special suit while playing.

For the first real 3D games, it'll take 2-5 years depending on how soon 3D TV makes it to 13" TVs and how soon the next XBOX1080/PS4/Wii2 comes out. The problem here is that 3D has a history of fadding and fading. But I guarantee the first 3D games will not look as good as the non-3D games released the same year.

Wearing special glasses to play video games -- :headshake: and they call us geeks.

 

[Canor Morum]

For the first real 3D games, it'll take 2-5 years depending on how soon 3D TV makes it to 13" TVs and how soon the next XBOX1080/PS4/Wii2 comes out. The problem here is that 3D has a history of fadding and fading. But I guarantee the first 3D games will not look as good as the non-3D games released the same year.

Wearing special glasses to play video games -- :headshake: and they call us geeks.

You should read about Autostereoscopy.

 

[Hawke]

I might be late to the party here, but these are my thoughts...

Future WotC releases (though I feel a "5E" is ages away) would need to focus on the things they can do that an average gamer can't get on their own for free. As the world becomes online and more people get hooked, more supplementary content, free systems, additional indie systems for less, etc. come into play. More used 2e, 3e, 4e books show up at used bookstores (one reason why wotc should embrace kindles... but that's another post) and more information sneaks online.

WotC CAN provide physical products and (in theory) digital products that are superior to what is available for free or with some easy work on the gamer's part.

I think Gamma World's decision to embrace cards fits within this framework - future products will continue to rely more and more on physical bits and pieces that enhance the game product. I think this said, the "math" side of it will go away more and more toward a "consumable resource" in the form of cards or other neat bits.

I think the Character Builder doesn't fit where they need to go, but any sort of virtual gametable would. Too bad that my "in theory" above has to only be a theory - why MapTool can outproduce anything WotC does? I think honestly, something with Xbox Live would be the best bet for this - keep the user created content and the RP side of things, but provide the maps & images and mechanics to play. Live is perfect because it has the VOIP done for you, it has a lot of the harder stuff done. IT has a built in market so you could play the game for free, but GMs could buy "dungeon tile" packs and other artwork for 400 points... and the achievement / reward system could also be used to encourage GMing and play.

So THAT said, a 5e system would need to take the most advantage of all of the above. Focus ends up being discrete modular options and less feats that grant +1 in this infrequent situation. Powers was a step in that direction, and either through cards or digitally you can manage your resources well... and the micro-buying will push products away from Monster Manual and probably more toward $5 for your new class - be it digitally or a set of cards needed to play it.