D&D 5E 5E without WotC [+]

Reynard

Legend
I am unclear if @Reynard is willing to use material from the Guild or not. WotC gets a cut of that, so I am not sure on there stance. Though as someone else mentioned (and so has WotC), you can get all the lore you want about Sigil and Planescape on wikis

Yeah, I don't know. What I do know is that people on the Guild make better stuff than WotC does for what I want to spend money on.
Yeah, my intent is to not give WotC any money, the the Guild is out. Lots of folks making interesting stuff out in the wider 3PP world, tho.
 

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dave2008

Legend
I really don't see it. LU does much better monsters, all their classes are more interesting to me (especially the martials), they actually have exploration rules that are worth using and not immediately ignorable by PC abilities, and their origin system is miles ahead of anything WotC has ever produced. I could go on and on.
I didn't say they match LevelUp in your desires, I said they are heading in the same direction where you said they are heading in opposite directions. The mechanical updated in 2024 are adding more depth. Bigby's and Planescape are adding more depth. Same direction you said you wanted, doesn't mean they are making the stuff you want.

I also disagree about LevelUp monsters being much better. They are generally better than the monsters in the 2014 MM, but so are WotC's more recent monsters (including ones in the same timeframe as LevelUp). There are also a lot of monsters in there that are pretty much the same. That being said, I generally prefer my own monsters more than either of them!
 
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Yeah, my intent is to not give WotC any money, the the Guild is out. Lots of folks making interesting stuff out in the wider 3PP world, tho.
There's still non-WotC 5e stuff in the main DriveThruRPG site, so that material is at least safe as best I understand how the fees get collected for stuff sold there. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that one.
 



WotC is focusing their attention on designing for new and casual players, eschewing depth in favor of simplicity and vibes. As a veteran and hardcore player who loves depth (lore and mechanics) and can generate their own vibes, WotC has nothing I want (except the IP they own, but they're never going to do what I want with it).
The wonder is that 5ed and level Up and even 5.5 are still compatible despite they are aiming different audience.
 


ECMO3

Hero
It is my opinion that while 5E is a pretty good version of the game,WotC has proven itself to not be great stewards of that game in recent times. More importantly, there are LOTS of individuals and companies producing 5E material and so WotC is unnecessary for my continued enjoyment and use of 5E.

I don't really want to argue about that premise in this thread (hence the +). If you feel that WotC is a good steward or is "necessary" for D&D, you are welcome to make that argument elsewhere.

What I do want to talk about here is the practical matter of sticking with 5E while rejecting WotC.

The first major practical matter is simply which version of the 5E rules to use. I am inclined to use LevelUp as a foundation because a) it is out and b) it adds some interesting layers and mechanics. That said, using LU would require buying from potential players as they would have to learn not just a few new rules but whole new subclasses etc.

"Black Flag" looks interesting as well but seems far enough off that it doesn't feel like a practical choice at this time. It appears like it will be similar in complexity to core 5E, as opposed to the nominally more complex LevelUp, but will still require folks learn it's nuances and particulars.

Of course there is always the option of continuing to use 5E as it is with the investments already made (in books, VTT modules,etc). This is perfectly reasonable and certainly easier to get player buy in -- until the 2024 rules come out and players want to be "current." It is a conundrum.

Mike Shea of Sly Flourish has repeatedly made the point that we don't need WotC to continue to enjoy5E. This thread is about how to do that in reality rather than merely aspirationally.

What do you think?

I think the most viable approach is to simply use the 5E rules already published with 3rd party adventuring/story content and I think that might happen anyway as I am not sure the masses are going to flock to ONE or whatever they are calling 5.5E today.

I don't think Black Flag or level up or any other 3rd party core rules will garner enough popularity for the community as a whole to move to them.
 

Reynard

Legend
I think the most viable approach is to simply use the 5E rules already published with 3rd party adventuring/story content and I think that might happen anyway as I am not sure the masses are going to flock to ONE or whatever they are calling 5.5E today.

I don't think Black Flag or level up or any other 3rd party core rules will garner enough popularity for the community as a whole to move to them.
What the community does isn't really relevant. The vast majority will move on to 2024 5E.
 

Well I just bought Midgard Worldbook for 5e off Amazon for $80cad including shipping and taxes. Should be here by November.

Also bought the Bundle of Holding Scarred Lands Package with upgrade.

After Planescape I just gave up on WotC. Might or might not buy PHB2024 because I contributed to it, but there are very few products that I want from WotC. I'll still buy the novels.

But 90% moving onto Scarred Lands and Midgard.
 

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