5th Edition announced

[Matrix Sorcica]

What will this mean, Krusty?

Will you stop work on your 4E material? Or not - after all 5E looks like it's a Gen Con 2013 release.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Matrix Sorcica!

What will this mean, Krusty?

Will you stop work on your 4E material? Or not - after all 5E looks like it's a Gen Con 2013 release.

Interesting question. Of course Gencon 2013 is 18 months away, thats about 0.3 book releases going by my current output.

In the short term it won't mean anything since I'm concentrating on getting the three parts of the Vampire Bestiary finished as soon as possible.

I'm also fairly confident that mechanically at least, 5E won't be ridiculously different from 4E. I actually don't think the major problems with 4E are mechanical, but rather the big problems were the initial GSL (which fractured the market) plus a bunch of lacklustre and all too familiar book releases.

Over in the general discussion forum I have been debating in favour of a return to the OD&D boxed set approach seperating the sale of the game into tiers of play. In each boxed set you'd have sufficient rules, maps, character sheets, dice and tokens to get started playing immediately.

So at this juncture I'll certainly continue supporting 4E. If 5E turns out to be an improvement, then I might convert my existing material over to 5E.

Oddly enough I had been thinking about converting my Epic Bestiary over to 4E recently. With all the art and fluff text completed it would only be a matter of fixing the stat-blocks...plus I would probably commission a new cover to avoid confusion. Could even add 4E stats for Orcus, Druaga etc. and make use of the Ascension interior art.

Just for fun I was actually working on a a 4E version of the Neutronium Golem the other night...

 

[Alzrius]

I'm as eager to hear what this does to U_K's plans as anyone, but at this point I don't think anyone's in a position to say...including U_K!

Simply put, there's not enough information one way or the other. When will 5E release? What will happen to the 4E GSL when it does? Will 5E have some sort of open license? These will all have a major impact on third-party support, and until we know the answers, it's impossible to say what will become of Eternity Publishing's work.

(Of course, none of that holds true for Pathfinder, U_K )

 

[Upper_Krust]

I'm as eager to hear what this does to U_K's plans as anyone, but at this point I don't think anyone's in a position to say...including U_K!

Try and finish a book. Thats my plan.

Simply put, there's not enough information one way or the other. When will 5E release? What will happen to the 4E GSL when it does? Will 5E have some sort of open license? These will all have a major impact on third-party support, and until we know the answers, it's impossible to say what will become of Eternity Publishing's work.

Exactly, too many variables at this point.

(Of course, none of that holds true for Pathfinder, U_K )

You know something, I'm actually interested in checking out the Pathfinder Beginner Box. I saw an unboxing video and it looks like they '4E-ified' the monsters. If that was the case I wouldn't rule out me working on some Pathfinder material (or personally converting stuff over to Pathfinder). As much as I enjoy working on the Vampire Bestiary my heart is always pining for the epic stuff.

I wonder is there anywhere online I can see previews of the monster section? I never endorse piracy, so thats not an option.

If not I might just buy the boxed set myself. The Pathfinder Bestiary 2 was a great book.

 

[Alzrius]

If that was the case I wouldn't rule out me working on some Pathfinder material (or personally converting stuff over to Pathfinder).

While I'm overjoyed to hear that, I'd personally caution you against converting to "Beginner Box Pathfinder" (as opposed to "normal" Pathfinder) simply because that'd limit your conversion's appeal...

As much as I enjoy working on the Vampire Bestiary my heart is always pining for the epic stuff.

...since the Beginner Box doesn't even get you near the epic levels.

I wonder is there anywhere online I can see previews of the monster section? I never endorse piracy, so thats not an option.

Paizo themselves posted a preview of the monster section right here.

The Pathfinder Bestiary 2 was a great book.

The Bestiary 3 is also looking great.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Alzrius mate!

While I'm overjoyed to hear that, I'd personally caution you against converting to "Beginner Box Pathfinder" (as opposed to "normal" Pathfinder) simply because that'd limit your conversion's appeal...

Upon reflection I'd still have the twin bugbears of monster feats and spell-like abilities to overwhelm and annoy me. So I'm cooling on the idea.

...since the Beginner Box doesn't even get you near the epic levels.

It wasn't the contents I was interested, but more the format in which the monsters were presented.

I have studied it in detail and while certainly superior, it still looks a tad problematic.

1. The only feat listed in Power Attack. I'm not sure if they have ignored all other feats or whether the monsters in question simply don't have any others because they are so low level. Monsters with feats =
2. Spell-like Abilities for monsters =
3. The Special Abilities section seems okay when you have 1-3 abilities. The monsters in my epic bestiary average about 10-15. I'm guessing I'd need an entire extra stat-block column just for special abilities alone maybe two columns in some cases.
4. Weirdly, because of the stat-block design, the monsters with longer stats get smaller art.

All that said, I still like the cleaner format.

It might be interesting to have a 2 page breakdown as follows:

Page 1, Left hand Column: Format akin to the shown layout but with the illustration replaced by a small scale silhouette with medium size humanoid.

Page 1, Right hand Column: Tabled format detailing the Special Abilities.

Page 2, Left Hand Column: Monsters Descriptive text, Ecological (monster)/Historical (NPC) text, Combat Tactics and Adventure Ideas.

Page 2, Right Hand Column: Monster Illustration.

Paizo themselves posted a preview of the monster section right here.

Thanks very much for the link...although in fairness I had investigated for myself and found the same preview about an hour ago.

The Bestiary 3 is also looking great.

Well I did a quick recon and from what I could glean (of Bestiary 3), the monster selection looks like a lot of pants. I could well be wrong (as I didn't find a full contents list) so feel free to tempt and tease my curiousity with some of your favourites from that book.

 

[Pssthpok]

To be perfectly honest, the fact that the entire lifespan of 4th Edition will pass and Krust still won't have his immortals rules done... in no way surprises me. You missed the boat for 3rd Ed, and now 4th Ed. If they gave out pennies for missing deadlines, making empty promises and disappointing your ever-dwindling fan-base, you'd be Scrooge McDuck.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey amigo!

Enjoyed your 4E/5E rant on one of the other threads.

To be perfectly honest, the fact that the entire lifespan of 4th Edition will pass and Krust still won't have his immortals rules done... in no way surprises me. You missed the boat for 3rd Ed, and now 4th Ed. If they gave out pennies for missing deadlines, making empty promises and disappointing your ever-dwindling fan-base, you'd be Scrooge McDuck.

A fair point mate. But the situation is what it is. I acknowledge its my fault so I'll just have to deal with it.

Overambition aside, 3E isn't a great system for Epic+ material (a 'bullet' even Pathfinder, with all its great designers, has dodged - that in itself tells a story). That said, 3E Epic had a basic (if uninspiring) framework (The Epic Level Handbook) for any level of play and what that did was make the PC side of things fairly simple to design.

4E has a totally reversed skew. Unlike 3E, the monsters are simple to make and fun to design. But unlike 3E, there is a capstone in place with regards PCs. What that in effect means is that any hypothetical 4E Immortals Tier would require a metric ton of work FOR EACH CLASS.

In 3E I just needed to design the Immortality Templates, Feats/Abilities and the (admittedly badly designed) Portfolio Templates. But these were all standalone features that could be added to Class Levels.

So neither approach is exactly marvelous for a procrastinating fool like myself.

From the start I should have just threw my weight behind fleshing out the 4E epic tier (monsters/adventures) and not really worried about 4E Immortal rules. While I think 4E Immortal rules could still be done (and my idea for them is perfect in my opinion) I don't see how they could cater for all classes without 4-5 books worth of material, and given how long it takes me to do one book I don't see that as a priority at the moment.

If I was able to fix the Ascension Portfolios (?), then it might be worth releasing Ascension for Pathfinder. At least give Pathfinder Gamers some chance at an epic game. But at this juncture I am not sure exactly how to fix the portfolios into something interesting.

 

[Pssthpok]

Hey amigo!

Hey hey, UK.

Enjoyed your 4E/5E rant on one of the other threads.

Yeah, I heard about 5E through the grapevine and dropped into the first thread I saw. If I had more time at the moment, I'd have gone into more detail. There's just so much rigidity and bloat in 4E that I hope goes away.

A fair point mate. But the situation is what it is. I acknowledge its my fault so I'll just have to deal with it.

Overambition aside, 3E isn't a great system for Epic+ material (a 'bullet' even Pathfinder, with all its great designers, has dodged - that in itself tells a story).

All true and, while I certainly snark you a bit for all the time I've spent waiting for your official releases, I can't say any of that was your fault. It is, as you say, what it is. Life, as someone else said, is what happens when you're busy making other plans.

4E has a totally reversed skew. Unlike 3E, the monsters are simple to make and fun to design. But unlike 3E, there is a capstone in place with regards PCs. What that in effect means is that any hypothetical 4E Immortals Tier would require a metric ton of work FOR EACH CLASS.

Agree on all points. For a class in 4E to be (and you may disagree with me here) as capable of appealing to as many players as their 3E counterparts, one required several volumes of Powers.

And then there's the issue of skill vs. luck, but that's another topic.

From the start I should have just threw my weight behind fleshing out the 4E epic tier (monsters/adventures) and not really worried about 4E Immortal rules.

That would have been worth waiting for. 4E Epic was, for me, far less interesting since it had been folded into "regular" play. It didn't feel epic, it just felt like more of the same. A layer of Krust over those rules would have changed things a good deal, I imagine.

While I think 4E Immortal rules could still be done (and my idea for them is perfect in my opinion) I don't see how they could cater for all classes without 4-5 books worth of material, and given how long it takes me to do one book I don't see that as a priority at the moment.

Yeah, exactly. That's one of the things I was wondering how you'd address. Each class has to have stacks of powers to choose from, and the demand for those powers never decreases over time. At least with your 3E rules, you could condense lesser feats into Divine/Cosmic or whatever abilities to take some of the bloat out.

If I was able to fix the Ascension Portfolios (?), then it might be worth releasing Ascension for Pathfinder. At least give Pathfinder Gamers some chance at an epic game. But at this juncture I am not sure exactly how to fix the portfolios into something interesting.

I wouldn't even worry about something like that. Pathfinder, in my opinion, is a holdout's game. It was too like 3E to be a new game and didn't really do anything for me.

At any rate, I hope you can land a spot in the playtesting for 5E. At least get some of your non-edition-centric game ideas out there where they might be incorporated into the game.

 

[eduar]

Ascension for Pathfinder would be great