D&D 5E 5th edition design notes: Per Round powers and triggered actions

mkill

Adventurer
5th edition design notes... is a collection of threads on how I would make the rules system more concise and easier to use in 5th edition (expected around 2015)


Action economy


Per round powers / features

Problem: Some powers or class features work best if you can use them exactly once per round. However, there is no straightforward way to express in the current rules framework.

Example: Sneak Attack and other striker bonus damage features, many "temporary attacks" granted by daily power stances

Solution: Introduce "per round" as a 4th type of usage between "at-will" and "per encounter"

Definition:
Usage: Per Round
If you expend a "per round" power, you regain it at the start of your next turn.

Note that it is not useful to make all at-will powers "per round". Sometimes, you want to use an at-will attack several times per round. Even with a standard action power, this can be done with action points, or attacks granted by a leader.


Triggered Interrupt / Triggered Reaction

Problem: The game currently uses 4 different action types to describe actions that are triggered by a certain event (Immediate Interrupt, Immediate Reaction, Opportunity Action and Free Action with a trigger). This is confusing.

Example: The difference between a Fighter's Combat Superiority vs. Combat Challenge

The main reason the game uses free actions with a trigger and other workarounds instead of immediate actions is the limit of one immediate action per round, imposed on all immediate action powers as a whole (This is by the way a legacy of the 3rd edition swift action). This is a major issue especially for defenders, who need to reserve their immediate action for their class role to function. Many powers and features that should have the "immediate action" type are therefore free actions instead. Opportunity actions complicate this even more.


The solution: Remove immediate interrupt, immediate reaction, opportunity action and (triggered) free action.
Create two new types: Triggered Interrupt and Triggered Reaction.

Replace one immediate action per round with one action per triggering event.
This solves a second problem, that one event can trigger several free actions (like Feychargers who could do several attacks on one charge).

Note that with this change, many immediate action power will change from "at-will" to "per round". That way, there is still a limit on them, but they stop interfering with each other.

See below how the opportunity attack fits into this scheme.

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Triggered Action (NEW!)

Trigger: Each power (or feature) that is a triggered action defines a specific trigger. You can use the power when the trigger occurs in the game, regardless of whether it is your turn or not. A trigger can be your own action, an ally's action, an enemy's action, or an event in the environment.
A triggered power can have more than one trigger. In this case, you can use the power on each trigger.

One triggered action per trigger: You can only take one triggered action on each trigger, even if you have different powers with the same trigger available.

No trigger chains: A triggered action cannot be a trigger for another triggered action.

There are two types of triggered actions - triggered interrupt and triggered reaction.

Interrupt: A triggered interrupt occurs before the action that triggered it is resolved. If an interrupt invalidates the triggering action, that action is lost.
For example, an enemy makes a melee attack against you, but you use a power that lets you shift away as a triggered interrupt. If your enemy can no longer reach you, the enemy’s attack action is lost.

Reaction: A triggered reaction occurs after the action that triggered it is resolved.

After you use a triggered action it is expended. When you regain the power depends on its usage type (at-will, per round, per encounter or daily)

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Note: Triggered reactions and moves need special attention. A trigger should never be "an enemy moves", but "an enemy enters an adjacent square" or "an enemy leaves an adjacent square".


Example: Sneak Attack

SNEAK ATTACK (4th edition)
Once per round, when you have combat advantage against an enemy and hit that enemy with an attack that uses a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling, the attack deals extra damage. If you have dealt Sneak Attack damage since the start of your turn, you cannot deal it again until the start of your next turn. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. As you advance in level, your extra damage increases.

Level Sneak Attack Damage
1st–10th +2d6
11th–20th +3d6
21st–30th +5d6


SNEAK ATTACK (5th edition)
Rogue Class Feature
Per Round
Triggered Reaction
Trigger: You hit an enemy with an attack while you have combat advantage against that enemy.
Required: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light blade, or a sling
Effect: The attack deals 2d6 extra damage. Increase the damage to 3d6 at 11th level and 5d6 at 21st level.


Example: Aegis of Shielding

Aegis Mark (5th edition)
You create an arcane link between you and an enemy.

At-Will - Arcane
Minor Action - Close burst 2
Target: One creature in burst; two creatures at 11th level; three creatures at 21st level
Effect: You mark the target.

(* 5th edition should include a general rule that you can mark one enemy per tier, i.e. one at heroic, two at paragon and three at epic. This will remove a lot of necessary rules text (= confusion) about how new marks invalidate old etc.
Mass marking powers could still override that rule if desired.)


Aegis of Shielding (5th edition)

You blunt an enemy's attack against your ally.

Per Round - Arcane
Triggered Interrupt - Close burst 10
Trigger: An enemy you marked hits an enemy with an attack that doesn’t include you as a target
Target: The triggering enemy
Effect: You reduce the damage dealt by the attack by an amount equal to 5 + your Constitution modifier.
At 11th level, reduce the damage dealt by 10 + your Constitution modifier. At 21st level, reduce the damage dealt by 15 + your Constitution modifier.


Example: Opportunity Attack

Opportunity Attack
General Power (*= a power available to everyone)
Triggered Interrupt
At-will (Special)
Trigger (1): An adjacent enemy leaves its square with a move
Trigger (2): An adjacent enemy makes a ranged or area attack
Effect: Make a melee basic attack against the triggering enemy.
Special: This power can be used once per each enemy's turn.
 
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mkill

Adventurer
Would you use this as a house rule for current 4E games as a general simplification of this stuff?
I have a group that is very house-rule averse. They are more casual players who just want their once per week monster bash. They're happy with their chararacters from the CB as-is and don't want to be bothered.
Of course, they would benefit from more concise rules, but only if they are "official".

However, if you have a group that's into rules experiments, why not? The changes mentioned here are meant to make the rules more consistent and easier to understand with less hidden restrictions (like one immediate action per round / not on your own turn).
 
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MrMyth

First Post
I do like the logic behind these ideas. In practice, though, I'm uncertain. With the "Triggered Action" change, for example, I think that in theory it allows a defender to use more situational triggered powers without removing their ability to use their main class features. In practice, I think it means a high level ranger will shoot you 27.5 times in the first round of combat.
 

Festivus

First Post
I don't know if it's just me, but this makes it more confusing than the current system in place.

First example, on the first one, naming something per round is fine... except what if I have slaying action?

Second example, you are really just relabeling the four reaction types as one and moving the condition into the power itself. To me, I'd rather see the keywords (like it is now) and understand what type of action it is and when it occurs in the sequence of battle.

Perhaps I am missing something here?
 

mkill

Adventurer
I do like the logic behind these ideas. In practice, though, I'm uncertain. With the "Triggered Action" change, for example, I think that in theory it allows a defender to use more situational triggered powers without removing their ability to use their main class features.
That's not a side effect, that's the intention. After all, if you choose an immediate reaction as one of your valuable daily powers, you don't want that power to block the job you're supposed to do.


In practice, I think it means a high level ranger will shoot you 27.5 times in the first round of combat.

Hopefully the system is playtested enough to avoid this.

However, I don't see this problem inherent in the system. He can only use one action per trigger. Maybe you shouldn't do whatever triggers his attack 27.5 times in a row? (And where did you get 27.5 actions?) In addition, the ranger's power should have a "per round" limitation, so he would need 27.5 different powers to react to your 27.5 triggers.

I'd rather say that my rules changes avoid this to a degree, because it replaces "free action" attacks with a trigger, the main cause of this issue in the current rule set (and a target of the latest errata).
 
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mkill

Adventurer
First example, on the first one, naming something per round is fine... except what if I have slaying action?

(For the readers, this is Slaying action)

Slaying Action
Heroic Tier
Prerequisite: Rogue, Sneak Attack class feature
Benefit: If you spend an action point to take an extra action and have already dealt Sneak Attack damage during this round, you can deal the extra damage a second time during this turn.

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I don't see an issue. As usual "special rule beats general rule". The general rule is "use sneak attack once per round, regain at start of your turn". This feat is a special rule that overrides the "once per round" part.

Unless I'm missing something, this feat is fully compatible with my sneak attack rewrite.

Second example, you are really just relabeling the four reaction types as one and moving the condition into the power itself. To me, I'd rather see the keywords (like it is now) and understand what type of action it is and when it occurs in the sequence of battle.

The power entry would be "Triggered Interrupt" or "Triggered Reaction", which is as easy or difficult to understand as "Immediate Interrupt" or "Immediate Reaction", isn't it?

I tried to reword my text to make that clear.
 
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MrMyth

First Post
That's not a side effect, that's the intention.

Oh yeah, I got that - I was saying that is a good goal to aim for. I just think it opens things up to potential abuse.

However, I don't see this problem inherent in the system. He can only use one action per trigger. Maybe you shouldn't do whatever triggers his attack 27.5 times in a row? (And where did you get 27.5 actions?) In addition, the ranger's power should have a "per round" limitation, so he would need 27.5 different powers to react to your 27.5 triggers.

27.5 might be a bit of an exaggeration. :) But right now, I've seen some high-level rangers who load up on immediate action encounter powers, and daily power stances that give them immediate action attack throughout the combat. The big limitation is that they can only take one immediate a round. As it is, they still tend to 'nova' and burn through most powers in a few rounds, dealing a lot of damage right at the start of combat. If you remove the limit on these powers, they would burn everything in the first round - and that doesn't make for a balanced system.

Sure, one could hope that abuses would be caught in playtesting - the problem is, in order to remove those abuses, you have to remove the options that allow for it. Right now, say, you have enough powers for a high-level character to have various triggers: Hitting an enemy with an attack, having an enemy damaged by an ally's attack, an enemy attacking the character, an enemy attacking an ally, an enemy starting its movement, an enemy ending adjacent to the character, etc.

Right now, immediate powers are already really potent because they let you do more things. Their key limitation is only being usable once per round. If you remove that, the only way to keep things balanced is to severely reduce how powerful they can be, or severely limit what sort of triggers can cause them.

So while I agree with the theory you are presenting here, I think the result in practice would either be a system someone could abuse... or a system functionally devoid of such triggered actions anyway, to prevent any possible abuse.

A better approach, in my mind, would be to focus on the ones that are getting 'lost' in the system and make it so they aren't immediates in the first place. Make the fighter's Combat Challenge attack an Opportunity Attack, for example, or find some other way to remove it from competing with other immediates.

I think solving those issues on a case by case basis is the way to go. As it is, immediates are already very strong, but you need to sometimes make tactical decisions as to which ones to use. Removing that limitation outright would, I think, not be an improvement for the game.
 

YRUSirius

First Post
The changes mentioned here are meant to make the rules more consistent and easier to understand with less hidden restrictions (like one immediate action per round / not on your own turn).

Yeah, I'm always looking into streamlining 4E even more, essentially trying to build my own easy and simple classes with very simple and easy to use power cards for total newcomers to the game. D&D Essentials are giving me some inspirations for this but I like to finetune all the powers, classes and mechanics for my players even more. I like to take the powers of the PHB, simplify them and make it my own game. I'm just trying to build my own basic D&D 4E version for casual players. :)

That's why I'm loving this per round idea for triggered actions mechanics (somewhat like the new Power Strike) with their conditions moved directly to the power.

I'm still trying to find a new elegant mechanic as an alternative for the fighters Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority class features... xD

-YRUSirius
 

I think the OP's point is that those limitations would be moved to the individual powers. I think to some extent it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

I would observe that there is a good reason why immediate and opportunity actions are not allowed during your own turn. It is intended to avoid corner cases where you would get chains of characters acting, causing a reaction, reacting to the reaction, etc.

Personally I think the main thing that 4e needs is a better rules text with more explicit definitions. Overall the OP's suggestions might help though, I agree that the triggered action types can be confusing. I'll observe though that you can't really get rid of the Free Action. It serves a number of purposes. There are also other questions that need to be clarified however, such as clarifications on how interrupts work in certain situations.
 

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