D&D 5E 5th edition monks

[Xeviat]

The entire "philosophy" of monks that do not need strength is for me silly.....

I think there would be room tweak the monk, possibly with an alternate 1st level class feature. We all know examples of martial artists in the real world. They're definitely "stronger" than the typical person, but they're also not a weight lifting olympian. There's something about their speed strength over their applied strength.

But, if you wanted to model them with Strength or Dex, you could make a 1st level option that lets them choose between 10+Dex+Wis for AC and instead pick 13+Wis AC. This could represent a more blocking style.

I'd rather model a strength unarmed martial artist on the Fighter, though. Just looking to genres, there are those martial artists who go unarmored and then there are those warriors who wear armor.

 

[Morlaf]

I think there would be room tweak the monk, possibly with an alternate 1st level class feature. We all know examples of martial artists in the real world. They're definitely "stronger" than the typical person, but they're also not a weight lifting olympian. There's something about their speed strength over their applied strength.

But, if you wanted to model them with Strength or Dex, you could make a 1st level option that lets them choose between 10+Dex+Wis for AC and instead pick 13+Wis AC. This could represent a more blocking style.

I'd rather model a strength unarmed martial artist on the Fighter, though. Just looking to genres, there are those martial artists who go unarmored and then there are those warriors who wear armor.

this "speed strength" you mention is what DnD calls (paraphrasing) "your chance to hit with melee comes off str because the stronger you are the faster your weapon moves"
with 3.5 rules i made a fat monk with a dex of 8. high str, high con, high wis focusing on grapple/sleeper-choker. but that is an extreme.
I loved my evil, 1/2-orc, monk with a dex of 12 and a str of 14. so his AC wasn't the best but he was nasty in a fight. a more middle-of-the road char, forgoing wpn finesse and focusing on Toughness, power attack etc. now you have none of those options.

As for modeling a high-str monk on fighters that would work..... just take a single level of monk?

 

[Xeviat]

As for modeling a high-str monk on fighters that would work..... just take a single level of monk?

It would take a variant Fighting Style and then a whole subclass, I'd think. I'd want to encourage light armor, up unarmed damage to 1d6 at some point, utilize TWFing well, and give it a slightly stunted ki progression.

In some of my class analysis, I've considered Monk Ki with it's short rest recovery to be very similar to a half-caster's Spell Points/3. If the Monk is the half-caster with 1 ki/level, then the Fighter could have a 1/3rd progression with 2/3 ki per level (I'm working on a full short rest recovery redesign for all the classes). This would end up close to the Battle Master, but less ki than superiority dice in the beginning but more at the end and different scaling.

Grappling monks do want Str for Athletics, though. It helps with jumping. But the more and more I think about it, I think the monk could have been designed as a Str or Dex class like the Fighter if you change the default assumption of the class (most of the monks I saw in 3E were weapon finessers).

 

[plisnithus8]

I would disagree with your premise that Strength makes you hit things faster. Strength is power, not speed. Dexterity determines quickness. Look at the ability descriptions.

 

[Morlaf]

I would disagree with your premise that Strength makes you hit things faster. Strength is power, not speed. Dexterity determines quickness. Look at the ability descriptions.

I agree.... so why is str needed at all..... for melee.... that is the whole premise of the simulator....

 

[Xeviat]

I would disagree with your premise that Strength makes you hit things faster. Strength is power, not speed. Dexterity determines quickness. Look at the ability descriptions.

This is where there is some issue with D&D ability scores. One of a few places. Dexterity is both hand-eye coordination and agility, but it's not associated with movement speed at all.

Moving your body quickly requires strength. You need a minimum amount of strength to move your own mass, and since that strength comes with added mass of it's own, it will top out eventually. A marksman with a gun is probably not as strong as a sword fighter. Weight lifters are "strong" but are certainly not fast. But martial artists do lift weights to get stronger in order to get faster.

 

[Morlaf]

This is where there is some issue with D&D ability scores. One of a few places. Dexterity is both hand-eye coordination and agility, but it's not associated with movement speed at all.

Moving your body quickly requires strength. You need a minimum amount of strength to move your own mass, and since that strength comes with added mass of it's own, it will top out eventually. A marksman with a gun is probably not as strong as a sword fighter. Weight lifters are "strong" but are certainly not fast. But martial artists do lift weights to get stronger in order to get faster.

agreed..... all of which is quite nicely address in 3/3.5 by having str=melee and dex=ac with the options of SOME feats allowing you SOME customization......

 

[Sacrosanct]

I agree.... so why is str needed at all..... for melee.... that is the whole premise of the simulator....

It’s true that strength is power, not speed. But it’s also true power matters. It’s the difference in getting hit by a toddler and getting hit by an NFL lineman.

 

[Xeviat]

It’s true that strength is power, not speed. But it’s also true power matters. It’s the difference in getting hit by a toddler and getting hit by an NFL lineman.

But toddlers aren't "fast" either. They're clumsy and wobbly and uncoordinated.

Speed is based on the force applied and the mass of what you're moving. You need to be strong to move the mass. You need to be strong to move your fist quickly. There's a difference between burst strength and applied strength (you can be slow and just squeeze something, like a hydraulic press).

 

[Morlaf]

i would say Usain Bolt is much stronger than he is dexterous.... but the exact definition of what is dexterity and strength is unnecessary..... DnD adopts its own (imperfect) version and I am happy with that. Monk with str as a dump stat? silly................