D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[Yaarel]

Uh huh.

The party gets its collective butt kicked trying to stop the BBEG's ritual in three nights.

Do they:

a) regroup at their hidden campsite, bandage their wounds, and try again the next day (after recovering resources)...

b) hustle back to the nearest village to solve the mystery of old man Rafferty's missing pocket square, because it's the only chance they have to get enough XP to level up and recover resources to try again, nevermind that this means they'll probably be too late to stop the ritual...

One of these makes a lot more sense than the other. Particularly in terms of a narrative.

It depends on the story.

What if the social encounters are to try get the town leaders and militia to help defeat the Big Bad?

 

[Minigiant]

When I DM, there are a few NPCs that are so annoying, disgusted, or lewd that you take psychic damage talking to them.

"Who does the anything about gazorbpazorbs?"
"Lydia the Librarian probably... "
"Ugh. Not Lydia."
"Her desperation damage dropped me to 0 last time."

Social Encounter draining Resources, baby.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Uh huh.

The party gets its collective butt kicked trying to stop the BBEG's ritual in three nights.

Do they:

a) regroup at their hidden campsite, bandage their wounds, and try again the next day (after recovering resources)...

b) hustle back to the nearest village to solve the mystery of old man Rafferty's missing pocket square, because it's the only chance they have to get enough XP to level up and recover resources to try again, nevermind that this means they'll probably be too late to stop the ritual...

One of these makes a lot more sense than the other. Particularly in terms of a narrative.

I get it, you made your example as out there crazy as possible... but let me counter with

The party gets to the necromancer base, they find the wighted orcs are too much for them, so they turn back to town and head to there allies... but as much as town guard wants to help there is this haunted house and this gang of hoalagans... so you clean out the haunted house, and go kill some dumb gang memebers (and admit that may be overkill) then they get the town milita's help... now a level higher and with back up they get back to the necromancer's base.

 

[Krachek]

IMO, all of the core classes should be equally viable.

That said, I'm not against basic versions of classes (along the lines of the 4e Essentials Slayer class) that are stripped down and simplified variants of a class, for anyone who wants an extremely simple class.

I just don't think it should be the core version of the class. IME, plenty of people who want to play fighters aren't averse to complexity. They simply want to engage with the fantasy of playing a weapon master. Then they actually try the class and are disappointed because the gameplay is essentially turn on auto-attack and come back in 5 minutes. That shouldn't be the default for any core class.

Having all classes equally viable, and a very predictable adventuring day send us back in the golden features of 4ed.
For a strategic game it’s quite perfect, for a role playing game, players didn’t follow.
I conclude that for a RPG having asymmetric classes experience and a random adventuring day make a better game.

 

[Fanaelialae]

It depends on the story.

What if the social encounters are to try get the town leaders and militia to help defeat the Big Bad?

What if the PCs don't want to get the townsfolk involved because they're good guys and don't want to get the townsfolk killed? What then?

I mean, unless you would literally somehow force the players to do that? But that seems like it would be... forced...

 

[Maxperson]

2k is medium for a group of 4, deadly starts at 4.4k and while I never tried it at 5th level I am pretty sure a rested party could handle a 7k encounter, no idea about 10k or higher.

Whoops. I was looking at level 4. The point still stance, for the 5MWD not to be an issue, the entire xp budget needs to be usable in one single encounter with no pulling of punches by me. So at level 5, that means 14000xp in one fight.

What that means is that I have to be able to use a Beholder and 9 Ogres or M mummy lord and Something else or an Adult Black dragon and a hundred or so Kobolds. By the rules I could use all 1250 kobolds to flesh out the last 2500xp since their CR is significantly below the average CR of the monsters in the group, but I think 100 with an adult black dragon is sufficient to TPK a 5th level party of 4.

There's no way for me to hit them in one encounter with the full daily budget(or anything close), which is necessary for a 5MWD environment.

As for doable in a single encounter; well! I have never seen and encounter last more than 20 rounds, so there is room for at least 2. However, I do not believe most users of the term mean a littler 5 minutes but a low encounter count day.

Yes, of course they aren't talking 5 minutes. It means that you can fight, rest, fight, rest, fight, rest, and so on. Since the group can decide to go rest after a single fight, one fight needs to be doable with the full daily budget.

 

[Yaarel]

What if the PCs don't want to get the townsfolk involved because they're good guys and don't want to get the townsfolk killed? What then?

I mean, unless you would literally somehow force the players to do that? But that seems like it would be... forced...

That is my point. The DM plans; players laugh!

The players can derail away from the encounters that the DM intended to do.

The game needs a mechanic that can flexibly follow the story in real time. Maybe the players will go back that same afternoon to face the Big Bad. Maybe the players decide to go back a week later. Maybe the players decide to go recruit help.

There can be encounters happening that are noncombat.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Having all classes equally viable, and a very predictable adventuring day send us back in the golden features of 4ed.
For a strategic game it’s quite perfect, for a role playing game, players didn’t follow.
I conclude that for a RPG having asymmetric classes experience and a random adventuring day make a better game.

This is very narrow thinking. You can have classes that are similarly viable without removing asymmetry. Like what, you think that if we give the fighter a few exploration abilities and maybe a social feature we'll suddenly be playing 4e?

Also, can we leave the edition war nonsense at the door please?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Having all classes equally viable, and a very predictable adventuring day send us back in the golden features of 4ed.
For a strategic game it’s quite perfect, for a role playing game, players didn’t follow.
I conclude that for a RPG having asymmetric classes experience and a random adventuring day make a better game.

I think you CAN have a little bit of asymmetric in the classes...

give the wizard more daily and the fighter more powerful at will and give both some short rest/encounter

you just can't have it THIS asymmetric.

 

[DND_Reborn]

There can be encounters happening that are noncombat.

MOST DEFINITELY!

As I said upthread, last night I ran an exploration encounter, a combat encounter, and then three social encounters.

Encounters aren't just combat--and I feel badly for any group whose DM thinks combat is the only type of encounter (hopefully no one actually does think that...).