D&D General 6-8 encounters (combat?)

[iserith]

Yes. Some things in my life have deadlines. Most do not.

Great, that should at least lessen the chance of a deadline in the game appearing to be a contrivance.

We don't. A clock can only tick for someone who cares. You can set a doom clock to save the princess, but if the party decides to go have a drink instead, that clock is not for them. It's just for her. Poor girl.

Yep, it's up to the players to decide what they want to pursue. If they don't intervene, the setting changes and they live in the aftermath of that, whatever it may be.

Let's not pretend that any time limit is a doom clock in the sense of what is being discussed in this thread. You're arguing that taking a drink is a doom clock because it's only a matter time before you have to pee. That's absurd. A sale is not a doom clock. Nor is leaving the cookie sin the oven.

Sure it is. They are countdowns to potentially undesirable results (for the character, if not the player). That's a doom clock. Missing out on a sale just has lower stakes than burning your cookies or risking random encounters while resting or the princess being sacrificed to the Elder Gods.

Taking a rest when there is nothing time pressuring you. I thought that would be obvious.

Don't take a rest in an adventure location then where there are random encounters? Or manage your time and resources better when you're on a deadline? I've had players have their characters sit in town for weeks resting safely while waiting for the weather to clear up before heading back out adventuring. That meant the villains advanced their plans by that much time - a faction the PCs were friendly with was essentially taken over and corrupted which led to new challenges. But they got their resting and town activities in, just like they wanted. So what's the problem?

 

[Flamestrike]

You seem to be rather pointedly ignoring the "needed for balance" portion of the quote.

Is your entire campaign that one adventuring day?

If not, then you just need to hit it as a median. Over your entire campaign.

 

[Flamestrike]

Everyone at the tables I play at know this guideline. But, absolutely no one I have ever met follows it. In fact, there are times we have only 1 combat session, zero explorations, and 1 social. In a two-hour game at fifth level, there is no way to have three combat encounters. It is literally impossible - especially if they are actually separate encounters. (Not "and reinforcements come.") Heck, I will go so far to say at fifth level, you could barely squeeze in three combat encounters in a four-hour game.
So if timing like this is accurate, How would anyone ever be able to continue a well threaded story with six encounters in a day?

A [game session] is NOT an [adventuring day].

If you're going to 'auto ping' a resource refresh at the end of a game session, with your encounter frequency make it a short rest instead.

Give them a long rest at the end of every third session.

 

[Minigiant]

Is your entire campaign that one adventuring day?

If not, then you just need to hit it as a median. Over your entire campaign.

The point is 6-8 encounters is a bad mode for all your Adventure days.

Adventure Day 1: 6 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 2: 5 encounters, 3 short rests
Adventure Day 3: 8 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 4: 6 encounters, 3 short rests
Adventure Day 5: 2 encounters, 0 short rests
Adventure Day 6: 13 encounters, 5 short rests
Adventure Day 7: 4 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 8: 7 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 9: 4 encounters, 1 short rests
Adventure Day 10: 1 encounters, 1 short rests
Adventure Day 11: 10 encounters, 3 short rests
Adventure Day 12: 7 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 13: 9 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 14: 5 encounters, 2 short rests
Adventure Day 15: 5 encounters, 2 short rests


Only the bold are balanced among the classes. The italicized are somewhat unbalanced. The rest are heavily biased.

6-8 encounters is too unnatural and unorganic outside the dungeon. Sure D&D is a dungeon game. However it stopped solely being a dungeon game back at the start.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I love that you start by talking about normal stuff...

If the DM plays enemies as intelligent and reactive, investigating at your own pace is almost always risky.

then come up with crazy like:

That depends on the DM. "Investigate at your own pace" can easily mean "As you rest, the remaining denizens of the Tomb of NBFI10KY&SFL awaken from their ancient slumber and gather to avenge themselves on the intruders. Halfway through the night, whoever is on watch sees dozens of undead closing in on your camp. No, you haven't rested long enough to get the benefits of a long rest yet, why do you ask?"

(There are a few spells like Leomund's tiny hut that can make it safer... but leaning too hard on those spells carries its own dangers. If you count on the hut to keep you safe, and only discover at the last moment that the monsters have a caster with dispel magic, it's gonna get bad.)

as soon as you approch you get hit by ranged attacks... the people on watch can attack out even if you can't attack in... and when you go to dispel you better hope they don't have a counterspell...

heck this particular spell is as useful (if not more so) when you want to set a trap to kick but as it is to rest...

unlike rope trick that is more hidden and much less able to be interrupted.

Now, these scenarios threaten TPK, which triggers an instinctive "No!" reaction for a lot of DMs (me included).

it's not that it TPKs (if my players walk into a TPK that's there fault) it's how its just so dumb...

However, this plan is less likely to come into play than DMs often assume--players get very inventive under pressure.

I can't imagine most dungeons having even a threat of a TPK. I run what the DMG calls deadly encounter left and right and even still my players walk through it like it's nothing...(TBF I have tables full of casters half of them melee able and all decked out and used to working together)

 

[GMforPowergamers]

People using Rope Trick or Leomund's Tiny Hut, deserve the TPK.

DMs that feel this way about random PHB spells deserve not to have players

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's an interesting take. So using a spell designed to let you rest in dangerous places is deserving of a TPK?

caster's aren't over powered BUT if they use spells as they are intended they need to be killed

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Players using Rope Trick or Leomund's Invincible Bunker of course shouldn't be punished. However, those are not spells that should exist. They break the rest pacing. But if you don't want the players to use them, just ban them. I did.

 

[Minigiant]

caster's aren't over powered BUT if they use spells as they are intended they need to be killed

Wizard Fans: The old editions were unfair. We want strong spells. Oh and spontaneous casting. Oh and a lot of spell slots. Oh oh and the spells have to be powerful and written in natural language so we can be creative. And no spell fizzling. And no encounter spells. Only daily spells!

WOTC: Wow that's a lot. Only way to balance ALL of that is to grind down your spell slots and nerf magic damage.

Wizard Fans: Suuuuure!

3 Encounters Later /SpongebobAnnoucer

Wizard: We should take a long rest.

DM: What! c'mon. It's only been 3 fights.

Wizard,: I casted Charm. Person on that one guy

DM: well if you rest now. The monsters will take revenge in your sleep

Wizard: Tiny Hut

DM: Their casters can dispel that. You are better off attacking. Now with the surprise.

Wizards: They got casters! Even more reason to run. I'm a caster. I know what they can do.

Monk: How about a short rest.

Wizard: Nah I barely get anything from a short rest. Not like I lost many HP.

Fighter: I wonder why.

Wizard: Not my fault wizards, sorcerers, and clerics barely get anything from short rests. I didn't design the game. I filled out my survey like everyone else.

 

[tetrasodium]

Wizard Fans: The old editions were unfair. We want strong spells. Oh and spontaneous casting. Oh and a lot of spell slots. Oh oh and the spells have to be powerful and written in natural language so we can be creative. And no spell fizzling. And no encounter spells. Only daily spells!

WOTC: Wow that's a lot. Only way to balance ALL of that is to grind down your spell slots and nerf magic damage.

Wizard Fans: Suuuuure!

3 Encounters Later /SpongebobAnnoucer

Wizard: We should take a long rest.

DM: What! c'mon. It's only been 3 fights.

Wizard,: I casted Charm. Person on that one guy

DM: well if you rest now. The monsters will take revenge in your sleep

Wizard: Tiny Hut

DM: Their casters can dispel that. You are better off attacking. Now with the surprise.

Wizards: They got casters! Even more reason to run. I'm a caster. I know what they can do.

Monk: How about a short rest.

Wizard: Nah I barely get anything from a short rest. Not like I lost many HP.

Fighter: I wonder why.

Wizard: Not my fault wizards, sorcerers, and clerics barely get anything from short rests. I didn't design the game. I filled out my survey like everyone else.

I simply can't believe that there are monk players who wait three entire encounters to start calling for a short rest