6 players, 5 hours, 4th edition

[Nymrohd]

Hmm so you could not pull someone to your square and shift back?

 

[Nymrohd]

I know what you mean and by your preview we have similar taste.
What I like to do regarding that is to believe that the characters are "real" adventurers, they "really know" about the stuff they do, different from us players who are normal people and we only pretend to be adventurers.
The characters in the gameworld also know each other better than we players know other player's characters, so it makes sense that the characters in the gameworld naturally know how to work together and use their powers the most optimized way they could.
So this "metagame" combat is, IMO, a valid way to represent the way "real" adventurers work together in a fight.

And after a while playing with a group, this metagaming is removed and translated into in character discussions about group tactics.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

So this "metagame" combat is, IMO, a valid way to represent the way "real" adventurers work together in a fight.

No doubt. And it's not discussing tactics that bugs me, really -- I accept that a group of seasoned adventurers that have been together for a while will work as a team.

There's a line in the sand somewhere, but it's different for different groups. For me, it's when they start to act like OotS characters, where they know the limitations of the rules and the characters act accordingly.

And like I said before, it can be a slippery slope leading to one or two people dominating the group to the detriment of the others and the game as a whole.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Hmm so you could not pull someone to your square and shift back?

Not as I understood it, and we specifically asked as that was the more obvious approach. It's probably the kind of thing a DM would hand-wave under normal circumstances anyway.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Rodrigo. Thankyou for what I considered a balanced and informative review.

 

[smathis]

(a) It was cooler

(b) I couldn't pull them into my square, so I'd have had to pull her to the square adjacent, and we didn't know if that was trapped or not. So, figuring it was a low chance they'd have two plates in a row moving forward, but kinda likely to have two side-by-side so you couldn't get past, it seemed more prudent to teleport in front and push her back to the square she'd already walked through safely.

That was a brilliant deduction, Rodrigo! I hope I get someone like you in a group when 4e comes out.

Looks like the grognards have a place in 4e after all.

 

[aboyd]

I just realized I disagree on just about every point Rodrigo made. For example, I like the idea of 1 square instead of 5 feet. I'm happy as a little girl they're tossing the 1-2-1 movement stuff. And so on.

And yet...

...Rod has played the game. I haven't.

Sorta makes me wonder if my happiness is a pipe dream and - in actual play - I'll be wishing to go back to the 3E stuff I find so cumbersome and wonky now.

I think what you'll see is that players begin to naturally move and attack at angles. You cover more ground that way now. So my expectation is that 4th edition gaming involves a lot of spells and shots and movement at 45° instead of head-on.

For some, that's just a change in angle and mostly irrelevant. For others, seeing players move diagonally across the gaming mat to optimize their escape or charge will reek of metagaming, and be endlessly annoying. For me, I think it's irrelevant -- the DM can move at angles too, so it effectively negates the advantages.

 

[kmdietri]

Thanks for the review and all the answers Rodrigo!

 

[fnwc]

Any other reason you think it's over-powered beyond comparison with the current cost in 3E?

You don't think the ability for an entire race to teleport 25 feet is powerful?

Besides combat, there are things like Eladrin armies being able to teleport across (short) rivers and that sort of thing. Certain players can easily reach ledges and other obstacles that they might not have relatively easily.

Of course, 3E parties can do this, albeit at a higher level, and they generally have to spend resources to do it.

I'm not too worried about it, but I'm curious about the general ramifications outside of combat an ability like this might have.

 

[fnwc]

There's a line in the sand somewhere, but it's different for different groups. For me, it's when they start to act like OotS characters, where they know the limitations of the rules and the characters act accordingly.

And like I said before, it can be a slippery slope leading to one or two people dominating the group to the detriment of the others and the game as a whole.

This is true, but I've seen this happen in 3E and other game systems as well. I'm not sure what 4E is doing to specifically encourage this behavior as opposed to 3E.