$64CDN for Book of the Righteous?? Not in this lifetime...

[Ranger REG]

Trust me, Canada should just annex themselves to the US and get the same price as we have.

 

[Winterthorn]

Canadian prices...

Hi

A few quick points:

1) The BotR sells for under $63 (62.50ish) at le Valet d'Coeur [levalet.com] and $56.00 at Captain Quebec. Both stores are in Montreal (like me) and they both sell Oathbound for the same prices too! (Interesting comparisons can be made I suppose...)

2) In Quebec we do not pay the QST on books or magazines (unless the merchant is a cheat--most are not--then again most locals know the tax regime). We only pay the 7% Federal GST on said items.

3) Yes, I found the CDN prices for BotR (Green Ronin) and Oathbound (Bastion) quite steep. But if one nags the merchant, "is that your best price?" kind of strategy, or make an obvious display of hesistation/indecision, you can get the price down. I did: I managed to get the Book of the Righteous and Necropolis together for under $95 CDN including the cost of the GST!

4) Hi from Montreal to the folks at Fiery Dragon! It's great to see a Canadian d20 publisher! I think it's fantastic you've got Claudio Pozas working closely with you folks and I luv the counter products!
Okay, enough of my fawning: I am particularly keen on the 2nd Counter Pack with the Pax Hobgobinica, etc. (Hobgoblins are very big in the Kingdons of Kalamar setting I'm DMing.), so when's that pack coming down the 401 to Montreal?

Cheers all,
-W.

 

[Winterthorn]

REG...

Trust me, Canada should just annex themselves to the US and get the same price as we have.

On one condition: that we always have cheap flights to Hawaii!

(I'm sooo fed up with our long winters here...)

-W.

 

[2WS-Steve]

I think only Japan gets cheap flights to Hawaii; annex to them

 

[JeffB]

Book of the Righteous is a bargain. No, really. To show you what I mean, let's have some fun with math.

Green Ronin frequently produces 64 page books for $14.95. No one says boo about that price, so presumably people think it's fair. I can tell you that a book that size runs about 40,000 words. I can also tell you that Book of the Righteous clocks in at 270,000 words. That means that Book of the Righteous is 6.75 times the size of one of our 64 page books.

Now bear in mind that we pay by the word and we use the same ratio of art (which also has an expense) in all our books. On top of that, it's a hardcover, which is more expensive to produce. If the price to word ratio on Book of the Righteous was the same as, say, Armies of the Abyss, do you know how much BoR would cost? $100.91.

Book of the Righteous is packed with great content and beautiful art, and it's wrapped up in a sturdy hardback. It is well worth your $40.

FYI, Mutants & Masterminds is 192 pages, full color, and $32.95.

Chris...

Thanx for the info. Yes I know about the relative and scaling prices of books based on size , etc..there were a TON of arguments here at ENworld about the WOTC products, 'member?

I'm also sure it's a very high quality book regarding content. Everyone seems to think so.

It's just very expensive compared to other books. As I said my Deluxe full color hardbound of Silver age Sentinels was $44.95 (american). I don't know exact page count but I'm pretty sure it's around the 300 mark (at work..can't go look). Kenzer's hardcover PG has a near 300 page count is B&W and is $29.95. COdex of Erde is about $32( IIRC)..about 300 pages, B&W hardcover. Necropolis..$30..B&W..near 300 p. Decipher's LotR RPG is $40, 300 p, full color and a hardcover, and they have a licensing fee to boot!.

Comparitively against larger D20/D&D companies who admittedly are getting lower prices due to volume (Kenzer & Necro/SSS) I can understand. Against smalle companies though, like GoO (who produce some really beautiful books, though they are certainly a small company) and Troll Lord, BotR and (M&M more-so) is still VERY expensive.

That's not meant as a "slam" just an observation. I'm not trying to get personal..I understand you feel you charge what you have to charge to remain health and in business...that's cool...I just feel that the book is overpriced compared to what my $40 will get me elsewhere...Now that doesn't mean I'm "cheap"....I spend a ton of money on RPG products (most I only use bits and pieces from)...but I do like to get a good value for the money... DLE SAS is a great value for $45 and I didn't even bat an eyelash at that price..same with LotR, but I'd back up on ANY 300 Page hardcover B&W book that costs 40 smackers, not just yours.

Just my opinion...

 

[kingpaul]

Trust me, Canada should just annex themselves to the US and get the same price as we have.

Quite seriously, when Quebec had their last vote for secession from Canada, I was taking a US History, WWII-present. My prof told us that the eastern provinces, who'd be cut off from the rest of Canada if Quebec left, were, unofficially, looking into joining the US. Granted, that info was not 1st hand to us, but it was an interesting comment.

 

[Nikchick]

It's just very expensive compared to other books. As I said my Deluxe full color hardbound of Silver age Sentinels was $44.95 (american).

I almost went into this before earlier in the thread, but decided not to. I probably shouldn't bother to do it now, because I know someone will read it and think I'm being defensive about my product. That's not it, really! We've got a good range of products at prices from $4.50 to $40, and I'm ok with that. I'm not trying to say that everyone needs to spend $40 on my big hardback book. It's the whole "for the long-term health of the industry" thing, something I know some of you have heard before but I feel this need to go over again.

Particularly in the case of GOO's Limited Edition color SAS, you do understand that it was *limited* and they're keeping the rules in print in *black and white*? Do you know why they're doing that? Because if they tried to sell that color book, at that price, as their "in print edition" instead of as a special, they wouldn't make any money!

Sure, a lot of these companies are releasing books that are the first in a line and cheaper than they should be! I'll be the first to point out that the Everquest RPG is full color and 400 pages for $30: I point it out because they're not making any money doing that! It's all about grabbing mindshare, enticing people to pick up the book and then hoping to "make it up on supplements." Even WotC, with all its talk about economies of scale, saw fit to raise the price of their core books.

Companies that are run by a group of guys who all have day jobs doing something else, or companies that put out one book a year, can "afford" to print books that are underpriced. Those super-cheap, oh-my-god-how-did-they-afford-to-do-that games will always be out there, but those products aren't the norm. (Nor should they be if you want to have a stable industry that isn't always full of companies on the verge of going out of business.)

My humble view from the business side,
Nicole

 

[HellHound]

*Hellhound kicks Winterthorne for fawning over the toronto publisher and ignoring the d20 publisher that lives less than an hour away*

Ahem.

I personally have NO problem paying this kind of money for products of this quality. Reading it, I kept saying to myself that I could write quality material in the sheer QUANTITY in that book.

 

[JeffB]

Nicole,

Thanx for replying.

I understand the business side of it, I really do. I'm speaking from the consumer side.

SAS is not the only example I provided though. What about Decipher's LotR, or some of the other D20 companies products I've mentioned? I know SSS is big, but there are other's out there doing big books for decent prices. You've explained the business side of that, but that's beside the point to a consumer(whether it's right or wrong is another debate)

Again I understand, and were there not a large number of similar books size wise to BotR for less dinero, I'd be less inclined to "whine". But in this case there are. The D20 market is huge, there are alot of folks competing for my $. I give companies like Kenzer and Necro the lion's share, and I'm VERY leery of the rest(most of it just does not suit my old fogey pre-1E style). I don't own any GR products (I bought DiF when the PHB was released but again, it wasn't my style)..But I keep hearing good things about GR. I loved the M&M preview in GT magazine. BotR get's great reviews as do most of your products I don't doubt the quality of the work. Even though I think that M&M is highly overpriced as well, I'm more likely to buy that without hesitation as it's a "core rulebook" so to speak, and will see lot's of use if I decide to run a campaign.

That being said, I'll take a look at BotR first, and then come to a final decision, it's just that the book already has a big strike against it without me even seeing it yet.

Again thanx for the reply

 

[Nazlith]

I think the BotR is overpriced as a product (quality of paper/binding, number of pages, illustrations, etc...) when compared to WotC and Necro Products. It definitely doesn't hold a candle to Necropolis or the Epic Level Handbook.

Fortunately, content plays a large part in determining if a book is of appropriate value. I just recieved my copy of BotR so I can't make an accurate personal judgement on its value. However, based on the reviews I've read, I'm expecting to get good value for my money.