D&D General 6E But A + Thread

Realistically he needs more than two books...everybody knows it.....he just hasn't come out and said it....because why would he...it's not like he is going to finish them....so why talk about it and invite the haters (previously fans) to critique him....he'd rather let the situation die off quietly.

Yeah. If he finished them in 2 books Sanny has to wrap up Essos in 1 book.

And the fAegon thing he's probably just dragonbait regardless of his real parents. And because he was added so late who cares?

Im not salty he's not finishing them. Hoping he let's someone else do it.

Apparently there's fan ones that have finished that are half decent.
 

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Im not salty he's not finishing them. Hoping he let's someone else do it.
He was recently asked at a convention would he let someone finish them and he rushed off stage to protect that ego.

Apparently there's fan ones that have finished that are half decent.
I didn't know that fans had actually written content. I've heard of youtubers creating revised content for Star Wars and ASoIaF but actually written content is impressive.
 

He was recently asked at a convention would he let someone finish them and he rushed off stage to protect that ego.


I didn't know that fans had actually written content. I've heard of youtubers creating revised content for Star Wars and ASoIaF but actually written content is impressive.

Yeah I cant confirm it though.

Convention thing he got ambushed i suppose. Im disappointed but its up to George if he finishes or not.
 

Convention thing he got ambushed i suppose.
That's why David Benioff and DB Weiss cancelled all their appearances.
It was not an ambush, it was a convention about epic fantasy and the fan asked a question related to epic fantasy. Hardly what I'd consider an ambush.

Im disappointed but its up to George if he finishes or not.
And I guess it was up to David Benioff and DB in Weiss how they finished the series.
 
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You realize this sentiment works against you just as much as it works for you, right? Do you really think both can be fairly presented as options in the same game?
I do think they can both be fairly presented as options in the same game, yes.

That is, in fact, one of the biggest reasons why I advocate for "novice levels" and incremental advancement rules that are robust and well-presented. Because they do, in fact, allow the same game to support the "zero to very slightly more than zero to maybe a tiny bit above zero to I guess you aren't technically zero anymore to well you finally survived long enough to maybe be a hero to somebody somewhere" gameplay that one group wants, and the rapid rise to heroism that the other wants. Tailoring the rate at which characters expand and grow is a huge boon.
 
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I missed this on my first read-through.

Let me tell you a story about the last D&D character I played before real life conspired to make me a Forever DM: Esmerae.

You see, my DM bought Spelljammer (The Beadles and Grimm version no less!) with the intent to run Light of Xarysis. I intentionally avoided spoilers the best I could, but being an active reader of ENWorld, I knew three things:
  • The contents of the player guide
  • The Athas was supposed to be Doomspace (not relevant)
  • The main bad guys were astral elves.

That's about it. So with that knowledge in mind, I created a character. An astral elf lunar sorcerer (the Dragonlance subclass reflavored) with the astral wanderer background. She had been taken from her family by githyanki raiders and spent decades wandering the astral to get back. This focused a character who was youthful (due to not aging), eccentric, full of wanderlust, and had a vengeful streak when she witnessed injustice. Remind you of anyone? Here's a hint:
Good thing you gave me the hint. :)

I've never really looked at Spelljammer so this is foreign territory to me.
And that worked great with the game. Her personal sense of betrayal from the Xarysis plot towards her adopted home (Faerun) helped focus the group towards the plot, and when the time came to make the moral choice at the end, she did not hesitate to let them burn for their cruelty and arrogance.

Would she have been as cool if she was a human fighter? Or a halfling thief? Honestly no. She was created with the campaign in mind, her own journey and the journey of the campaign. I didn't even know how well her story would fit into the plot. She never overshadowed the other players, who also got their own arcs. But the fact I could create her exactly as I wanted allowed me to tailor her to what the campaign needed.
And for a focussed campaign like that, that's great.
I'm sure you are going to dismiss it both for being an adventure path (and very linear one at that) and how I used metagame knowledge to wedge myself in.
Dismiss? No.
I'm also sure that it was inferior to a bunch of randomly generated characters in a sandbox game in your eyes. I don't care. A randomly generated character wouldn't get a $40 Heroforge color mini. Esmerae has one.
And I gotta say, that's one nice mini. Prepainted, or did you do it?
She means more than dozens of unnamed Basic D&D characters rolled up and killed in the Keep of the Borderlands.
Aye, but there's the rub: if all you know going in is that the campaign is starting with KotB (or some other module you're unfamiliar with) and going who knows where after that*, there's no real way to tailor a character to the story as you did with Esmerae as you've no idea what the story will be or become; and maybe the DM doesn't either. You might be able to tailor your character to fill a hole in the lineup, if you're rolling up in knowledge of what each other is doing, but that's it.

And you also don't know whether your initial character will stick for the long term or turn out to be a one-hit wonder or something in between. Any DM standing raw 1st-level characters into KotB is, I hope, warning their players not to get too attached to them, as that can be a nasty dungeon even if the PCs aren't busy killing each other as well.

You don't mention the expected or realized lethality level of Esmerae's campaign, but that she was (it seems) your only character says either the campaign wasn't very lethal or you/she got lucky. :)

* - this is in fact exactly how I started my current campaign: I told them up front we'd be starting with KotB (which I'd somehow neither run nor played before then) and take it from there.
 

It's been a minute, but wasn't there a prophecy about him dying and returning, thus forcing him to go through that?
I don't recall such, but maybe?
The bigger issue (of course) is that his return does nothing. He's not the king, doesn't kill the Winter King, the only thing he does is kill the 11th hour villain after she makes her face-heel turn and he is banished for it, making both titular characters (Dani as fire, Jon as ice) failures.
Which is fine. The real success story is Sansa anyway.
The winner is the DM's overpowered Deux-ex-machina-in-a-wheelchair NPC.
I never thought of him as deus-ex-machina or overpowered, but his physical limitations would make him a fairly challenging-to-play PC in such a combat and travel oriented setting.
If you think that's a great D&D game...
What great about that saga in D&D terms is the constant forming and breaking of groups and parties, and how those parties meet and merge and interweave and split over time with new characters joining, old ones dying or retiring or cycling out, and how even when some of them are in the same party they don't always get along or trust each other in the slightest.

That said, when they're in common peril even those who hate each other still cover each other's backs, examples being when Catelyn's group get attacked in the hills en route to The Vale and when the party that goes north to capture one zombie get trapped on the island by the whole army of 'em.
 

Had he died in the books first (i.e. had GRRM got that far in writing the bloody things) and stayed dead, nobody would have batted an eyelid when he died in the show. Same as Ned Stark - everyone knew going in that he dies because that's what the book says, so it doesn't come as a big shock when he dies in the show.

That said, I wonder if bringig Snow back to life was, more than anything else, to bail the writers out of a corner they'd written themselves into.
Allegedly, they were operating on what notes GRRM was willing to provide them--and Jon Snow's resurrection is literally something that will have to come up in the next book because, as of the published books, he has just been killed. It would be extremely odd for some kind of resurrection to be completely ruled out, when GRRM (by the shows' creators own admission) only permitted them to do what they were doing because they correctly ascertained Jon's true parentage--that Eddard Stark was never his father, but rather his uncle, and that he is actually the son of Eddard's sister, Lyanna, and Rhaegar Targaryen, aka "L+R=J"--making him the true heir to the Iron Throne, and making his romance with Danaerys actually 100% in keeping with the incestuous marriage patterns of the Targaryen dynasty, with Jon being Dany's uncle.

Given all of that--given how important it is to the story that he survive, how much of an outright disappointing waste it would be for him to remain dead, as he has in fact already died as I'm given to understand--it is exceedingly unlikely that he remains dead. Indeed, even the method of his resurrection, up to some wiggle-room about exactly how his soul gets put back in his body, seems already locked in. He mentions the name of his "wolf" as he dies, "Ghost." He is, almost surely, "warging".

(The vast majority of this is stuff I only know due to the fact that the negative response to the TV show was EVERYWHERE in its final season and I literally couldn't avoid it. I became conversant so I could end the conversations more quickly.)

For me it's close to 100% comparable.
Again: How?

Vladimir Guerrero Jr is currently a very good and quite recognizable baseball player on the Toronto Blue Jays. Should he leave the team next season*, however, I'd keep following the Jays as a team, not him as a player.
Yes, because YOU are not participating as any of those team members.

Do you think Mr. Guerrero Jr. is going to follow the Blue Jays avidly when he switches to a new team?

Because that's what the player is actually doing. They're actually one of the players on the team. I would expect them to pay attention to...y'know...the team they're actually ON. And if a player, say, were badly injured and had to retire, do you think they're going to be as avid a follower of that team?

You are, as I said, making this circular. You have inserted the distance, the specific election to focus on team before any possible consideration of person. For TTRPG players, that cannot happen. You literally don't know anything at all about the team until it happens in-character. Prior to that moment, the one and only thing you know is...your character. You don't even know the world as well as you know your character.

For this analogy to work, you would have to be following a single specific player from high school, through college, and on to them finally joining a professional team, and then, only then, deciding "actually, all I really care about is the Blue Jays."

Is that not a pretty substantial leap, to have invested so much time and effort and care into one singular player, over the course of their extensive pre-professional career....only to then instantaneously switch all of that investment to the first team they happened to join?

And in the end the characters are largely interchangeable within the roles they fill: you've got the fighters who might be Hyperia and Sir Grailen this adventure who then retire or cycle out to be replaced by Melkolf and Perseus next adventure; meanwhile the healer might be Raven this time cycled out for Claire next time; the sneak is Melwen now but she's leaving so Elwyn+ will take her place, and so on - all with the same four players. All those cycled-out characters remain available to come back in later. The party and its story/ies, meanwhile, carry on, even while its internal dynamics change significantly from one adventure to the next.
Again: only if you presume that the characters are interchangable nothings. Only if you enforce pawn stance as the only possible way to play.

You are the one forcing this to be true, it's not in any way a requirement, nor is it better for all people that it be so. Demonstrably not, considering the number of people who clearly do not play that way and do not want to play that way.

Not the same. Movie series like Indiana Jones focus on one key character while everyone around that character comes and goes from one scene or movie to the next. Party-play RPGs do not (or IMO should not) focus on one key character, therefore the "everyone comes and goes" piece now really can mean everyone.
But the only possible thing you can focus on IS a key character, namely yours, until after a substantial amount of time has passed, at which point your character has integrated into the group. The one and only attachment you have to the world IS your character, you know that character better than you know the color of the world's sky, for goodness' sake! Unless and until you integrate into the group, the character is all you have.

Your "should not" is for you and you alone. It's not a universal truth. It never should be.

Also, character turnover is useful in that it keeps things interesting and fresh. Playing the same character - or playing with the same character(s) - year after year can get very boring; no matter how entertaining the character is, sooner or later it's time for a refresh.
Most people don't play "year after year"--because campaigns don't last that long. You are, as is so often the case, projecting your extremely unusual situation--having had a single cohesive group for multiple decades--onto absolutely everyone and then drawing false conclusions as a result.
 

@Remathilis I think each table determines their own acceptable character loss for campaign or story and players need to find a table that's acceptable to them.
And most importantly it's not binary.
It's why I've XPed both you and @Lanefan because I can see the value in both style of games. Our D&D tent is pretty big it's why I favour dials of play for 6e.
 

@Remathilis I think each table determines their own acceptable character loss for campaign or story and players need to find a table that's acceptable to them.
And most importantly it's not binary.
It's why I've XPed both you and @Lanefan because I can see the value in both style of games. Our D&D tent is pretty big it's why I favour dials of play for 6e.
Well, keep in mind what Lanefan said to me:
Party-play RPGs do not (or IMO should not) focus on one key character, therefore the "everyone comes and goes" piece now really can mean everyone.
This isn't just "this should be a valid path". Lanefan wants this to be the ONLY path.

I am completely in favor of providing tools and support for multiple approaches. I am not--and never will be--in favor of what Lanefan is advocating here. This is forcing one style on everyone, not supporting diverse styles.
 

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