D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[mamba]

Been thinking about this for a while, I have conflicting goals / visions, so I needed to sort them out and go with the ones that better fit D&D. As it turns out, the most important ones are basically what Shadow of the Weird Wizard has done, which confirms to me why I prefer it over 5e.

• Get rid of multi-classing and instead have 'broader' classes
• Only have the four core classes, Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief, expand them via a wide selection of skills / skill-chains or subclasses (in the latter case, synchronize their progression and put more of the power-budget into the subclasses)
• Focus on levels 1-12, I am absolutely fine with dropping anything higher than that
• Weed out the spells, at least 50% can go, group the rest thematically and give them to different casters

Pretty much all of this is in SotWW. The synchronized subclasses / skill-chains are implemented via the three tiers of classes you get throughout the game.

All of the above can imo be implemented without overly breaking compatibility with 5e, the below will break that for good however.

• Combine roll to attack and damage roll into one roll with automatic hit and tiered effects. Do this for melee and casters / spells
• All rolls are player-facing, that is they roll to attack and roll to defend, the DM does not roll and can focus on the narrative
• Have Luck and Doom points (like ToV) as metacurrencies for the players and DM
• Come up with a better action economy than main action, bonus action and reaction
• Either make rests harder to get, like a long rest is a full week in a safe location (Rivendell, not a tent in the woods..) or move to a per-encounter power model, the current attrition model is severely hampered by the rest of the game

 

[mamba]

The 2 Shadow games are the closest game I've seen to my ideal version of D&D.

I assume you mean Shadow of the Demon Lord / Weird Wizard with this. If so, I fully agree

 

[dave2008]

Been thinking about this for a while, I have conflicting goals / visions, so I needed to sort them out and go with the ones that better fit D&D. As it turns out, the most important ones are basically what Shadow of the Weird Wizard has done, which confirms to me why I prefer it over 5e.

• Get rid of multi-classing and instead have 'broader' classes
• Only have the four core classes, Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief, expand them via a wide selection of skills / skill-chains or subclasses (in the latter case, synchronize their progression and put more of the power-budget into the subclasses)
• Focus on levels 1-12, I am absolutely fine with dropping anything higher than that
• Weed out the spells, at least 50% can go, group the rest thematically and give them to different casters

Pretty much all of this is in SotWW. The synchronized subclasses / skill-chains are implemented via the three tiers of classes you get throughout the game.

All of the above can imo be implemented without overly breaking compatibility with 5e, the below will break that for good however.

• Combine roll to attack and damage roll into one roll with automatic hit and tiered effects. Do this for melee and casters / spells
• All rolls are player-facing, that is they roll to attack and roll to defend, the DM does not roll and can focus on the narrative
• Have Luck and Doom points (like ToV) as metacurrencies for the players and DM
• Come up with a better action economy than main action, bonus action and reaction
• Either make rests harder to get, like a long rest is a full week in a safe location (Rivendell, not a tent in the woods..) or move to a per-encounter power model, the current attrition is severely hampered by the rest of the game

I like a lot of this, but getting rid of the attack roll is a non starter for me. Not a big fan of Luck and Doom points either, but that ould likely be easy to ignore.

 

[Scribe]

Been thinking about this for a while, I have conflicting goals / visions, so I needed to sort them out and go with the ones that better fit D&D. As it turns out, the most important ones are basically what Shadow of the Weird Wizard has done, which confirms to me why I prefer it over 5e.

• Get rid of multi-classing and instead have 'broader' classes
• Only have the four core classes, Fighter, Cleric, Mage, Thief, expand them via a wide selection of skills / skill-chains or subclasses (in the latter case, synchronize their progression and put more of the power-budget into the subclasses)
• Focus on levels 1-12, I am absolutely fine with dropping anything higher than that
• Weed out the spells, at least 50% can go, group the rest thematically and give them to different casters

Pretty much all of this is in SotWW. The synchronized subclasses / skill-chains are implemented via the three tiers of classes you get throughout the game.

All of the above can imo be implemented without overly breaking compatibility with 5e, the below will break that for good however.

• Combine roll to attack and damage roll into one roll with automatic hit and tiered effects. Do this for melee and casters / spells
• All rolls are player-facing, that is they roll to attack and roll to defend, the DM does not roll and can focus on the narrative
• Have Luck and Doom points (like ToV) as metacurrencies for the players and DM
• Come up with a better action economy than main action, bonus action and reaction
• Either make rests harder to get, like a long rest is a full week in a safe location (Rivendell, not a tent in the woods..) or move to a per-encounter power model, the current attrition model is severely hampered by the rest of the game

Hmm, I'm going to need to look at this. I keep thinking 'throw 5e, Daggerheart, and Shadowdark in a blender..' as my ideal.

 

[Chaltab]

I feel like a lot of these discussions tend to veer away from making D&D a better game and turn into making D&D more like a different game they like more. Going back to just four classes, or centering the gameplay around a meta-currency, dropping higher level support... this is all stuff other games do successfully but things I cannot imagine being acceptable in a numbered edition of D&D.

Especially after how much crap 4th Edition got for Roles and ADEU.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You do know that @Lanefan has been running a successful game using his principles of play? For years? Many years? You act like his way couldn't possibly work and would inevitably lead to his players abandoning him.

I'm not talking about the game he runs--nor is he, other than as a jumping-off point.

He's talking about what 6e should be for absolutely everyone.

He wants these principles to be enforced, unless the group invents their own thing separate from it.

It couldn't possibly work as the basis upon which 6th edition is built. That's...literally the topic of the thread.

 

[Older Beholder]

Just spit-balling here, but regardless of the rules... it would be interesting if 6E put it's basic ruleset in creative commons (or release it as a starter set), then leaned heavily into the various IP's, releasing setting specific Players handbooks, Monster Manuals, DM guide, Campaign setting books and adventures.

I know why they won't do it this way, (for a bunch of reasons).

 

[mamba]

this is all stuff other games do successfully but things I cannot imagine being acceptable in a numbered edition of D&D.

I am not expecting most or even any of what I wrote to happen, but I would not say that none of this (or even all of it) could not be in a 6e and still have it be D&D. D&D has been a lot of different things over the years.

I am not looking for 6e to be as little of a change from 5.5 as that was from 5e. I already feel that 2024 was too timid and suffers for it

Especially after how much crap 4th Edition got for Roles and ADEU.

I am not a big fan of ADEU either, the fact that I even suggest it shows how little I think of the current attrition model

 

[Reynard]

IMO, a medieval fantasy world shouldn't have to work around someone suddenly pulling out a cell phone.

I think that's where the disconnect lies. The world is a place with cell phones. Don't design adventures bypassed or ruined by their existence. Make them integral.

 

[Reynard]

The thing is, GMs don't necessarily need to know every spell the PCs have, but they should know what's in the system and actually plan the world (and adventure) around that. A world with teleport and sending in it will be different from one that doesn't have that spell.

Maybe sending only works if both parties have a receiver, or there are spells or creatures that can intercept them or even hack the messages, so they're not quite as reliable as one might hope. Maybe Mount Doom and its surrounding territories are covered by anti-teleportation wards (or worse, wards that divert teleportations to less amenable places than Mount Doom), and only the bad guys have the key to get around them. Maybe whatever creature Harry Potter was looking for is wearing a collar that prevents it from being detected by a locate creature.

Or maybe sending works as written, so even if party doesn't have to cross the mountain of giants, there's a different problem they have to face. Maybe the King won't aid them because a sending spell is considered rude; you have to send actual people if you hope to get any favor from royalty. Maybe teleportation works as written, but it pings alarms and now everyone and their personal army is after the party. Maybe whoever has the whatever creature Harry Potter was after made sure to keep it more than a thousand feet from any meddling kids so locate creature won't work.

(Look, I can't remember from either LotR or HP.)

Also there WAS sending in LotR. Between palantirs and talking to moths, there was a lot of long range communication. Not to mention flying mounts, magic swords, superhuman elves, invisibility cloaks and literal stars in bottles.

LotR is NOT low magic,it is rare high magic.