D&D General 6E But A + Thread

[TiQuinn]

Now, a lot of buzz about these other systems, particularly from 5E haters, makes it seem like D&D's bottom line is threatened. Though, im guessing its like World of Warcraft and every other MMO out there situation. Something would really need to take a nibble at D&D's bottom line to cause a hard reset reaction, and if PF2 cant do it, these other launches are not likley to either.

So, my current way of thinking is that, if everything is brought down to dollars and cents, and growth rates and all that jazz, people could make the argument that the 5e system could just keep on going until eventually sales start to flatten out for whatever reason they do. But I also know that not everyone, including decision makers, think rationally or agree what's rational. Or rather, if the growth rate is 12% (number pulled out of my behind), and new executive thinks the growth rate should be more like 20% (also a made up number), then you start hearing stuff like "Oh, dear, the brand is under-monetized". People make business decisions based for all sorts of reasons - "OMG, MMOs are going to kill our numbers" or "That's the last guy's project, I want to put my own stamp on things."

 

[Micah Sweet]

You are still asking the system to do a lot in 700 pages if you expect balanced and expansive options. A Tolkien elf is not an Eberron elf. Aragorn and Drizzt are not the same type of rangers. Magic is wildly different in Middle Earth, Hyboria, Greyhawk and Hogwarts (to the point where you can't have one universal wizard class that could emulate them all, low/high module be damned). Their is no One System to Play Them All. Nor would I necessarily want that: a system so disassociated from it's source material doesn't have anything to focus it. It would be easily abused when modules designed for one type of play mix with a different (Harry Potter magic meets Westros healing/combat).

The d20 system showed it was remarkably flexible. It did that by creating hundreds of separate games with their own tweaks and versions of things. It constantly reinvented the wheel. And despite being similar enough, they weren't compatible without a lot of elbow grease (speaking from experience as someone who ran a SWRE Jedi in a "D&D" campaign). No way could you do the same in just 700 pages.

Agreed. This is why my version of 5e has far more pages in total.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This is what I'm talking about, @CreamCloud0 . I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness here you can silence.

I mean, if we're talking fantastical, the idea that a Fighter can in well under six seconds (from level 5 onwards) potentially kill or maim four different people in four different directions with four different attacks (each potentially having a different Battlemaster rider on them!), rising to 6 at 11 and 8 at 17, whilst also moving up to 30ft and not even having used up their Bonus Action (!!!), that's insanely fantastical, especially if they're using say, a greatsword or a greataxe or god help us, a maul (which I daresay is 100% physically impossible to do in six seconds, even a sweep/turn IRL is going to lose so much speed after the first impact it'll do next to nothing to the rest).

(To be clear I actually think Fighters can make too many attacks per round, I think that's basically a bad hangover from 2E and we should max out at 2 attacks + bonus action and most classes should get that, just Fighters should get attacks doing stuff like load and loads more damage - I mean, how come Paladins get to hit hardest in a single swing? - or whirlwind attacks or the like)

So this is completely inconsistent. It's not really about what needs a magical explanation, it just a selective "Well this impossible thing is okay because I personally don't imagine it to be impossible even though actually if I think about it for even a second it obviously is but that impossible thing should stay impossible even though it's not really any less plausible and is even more of a genre trope!".

D&D "but it's not plausible!" stuff remains crippled by the "feel free to jump off a building" nature of HP too. You don't even get stunned or risk death by massive damage in 5E lol. Let alone break anything. You literally just get prone'd if you jump a survivable height, even straight on to granite!

 

[Micah Sweet]

I had a player jokingly ask if his PC (a dhampir) drank the blood of the sorcerer, could he get spellcasting ability since sorcery is tied to blood/bloodline. The books are silent on this, so I made a ruling like a DM does. I certainly didn't ban dhampir and/or sorcerer. Ymmv.

And once that ruling is made, that's the way it works in that campaign. Sounds awesome!

 

[Minigiant]

It's not that crazy

Have you every played any other RPGs, because that is not how it works. At all.

YEs I've played other RPGs.

You do realize every version of D&D uses the same resolution system as the main mechanic just with different numbers, formulas, and ranges?

1d20+X vs DC Y
If equal or greater, do AdB+C or Effect 1
If lower, sometimes half or Effect 2

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think that's because ENworld is extremely, extremely un-representative of 5E players as a whole, based on I dunno, anywhere which isn't full of grogs like us, but more of the vast majority of 5E players who are 35 and under, and for whom 5E is their first (or first for so long they barely remember it) TTRPG.

So we've had endless pointless going-nowhere discussions of Long Rests from literally day 1 of 5E and what they should represent and so on. If you changed the default effect of them, sure, you'd please like, some grogs, but according to WotC's own surveys, grogs as a whole (i.e. the oldest category of players, I think WotC had it as like 40+ or 42+ or something) is like what, 12%? And of that 12% of 5E players, how many want Long Rest to change? 50%? 25%? 10%? So you might be looking at pleasing 1.2% of players or less by changing this!

And importantly, not only would you be pleasing say, 6%-1.2% of players, you'd probably be actively pissing off somewhere ABOVE 50% of players who are used to Long Rest working a specific way and don't see why it would change.

The question of course is, do you want to design a 6E that is popular and successful, or do you want to design 6E into an ultra-niche game that is ideal for you, but makes 4E look incredibly popular by comparison? A lot of people would be happy with the ultra-niche I'm sure, but my point is that if you change stuff to be more OSR-ish/Old-Skool just because some grogs on ENworld wanted you to, then that's probably the direction you're headed in.

I mean, look at 5E-likes - A5E, ToV, DC20, etc. do any of them change the definition of Long Rest significantly by default? I don't think they do. I could be wrong, tell me if I am! But if this was an ez-pz way to ensure more people liked something, all of them would.

(DH, a D&D-related but not 5E-like game notably does change Long Rests a bit, in that it's a case of "Pick 2" rather than always a full reset - I think fiddling on that level might work, but even then it'll probably just create balance issues.)

I do think that ENworld etc. does show people want some options here, but I don't think it supports changing the default situation.

A5e uses Havens, which restrict when and where one can take a long rest. Its a great verisimilitude tool.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

A5e uses Havens, which restrict when and where one can take a long rest. Its a great verisimilitude tool.

Yeah and would make a good option/dial/setting for a 6E I think.

 

[Scribe]

If D&D wants to stick around, it really needs to update its ideas a bit. I do think there are plenty of people at ENworld who would be happy if, when they die, D&D was ritually sacrificed and thrown on to the pyre with them lol, and absolutely don't want it to be allowed to change or continue to develop in that sense but that's quite a specific perspective!

I laughed. There are also those who if D&D were to be thrown into a volcano, would legit dive in after it.

I hear you on the 'fantastical' bit. I think there is room to have both.

I dont think I'll ever accept a level 1-3 Fighter cutting the mast of a ship with the force of air off his sword, at 20 feet away.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would only GM 5e if I was paid above minimum wage for it.

Expect pushback if you complain about a game you've never run.

 

[Micah Sweet]

When was the last time you watched Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves

Hint: Do you remember the crone's death?

I believe a sword was thrown in that scene. No magic. No super-powers. Action movie physics at worst.