D&D 5E A $20 Starter Set. Cool!

[Giltonio_Santos]

Re-playability means just that. Can you generate a character? There doesn't need to be build options included but players should be able to create basic characters. Likewise there should be a selection of monsters & treasures for the DM to use in creating new adventures. A few levels as a limit is just fine. Moldvay basic limited advancement to level 3 and there was material for tons of campaigning in just that box, all low level of course.

Most importantly, when players were ready to move on to higher levels, the info in the basic box didn't become junk.

The 4E redbox was the worst offender in all categories here. What rules it did come with weren't compatible with the material it was meant to lead to. One of the very first things in the Essentials books was a little note saying that if you had started with the redbox too bad, you will have to make a new character. You just paid $20.00 for nothing more than ad copy to get you to buy this-thanks sucker.

No matter if its newbies or veterans, those who purchase a starter set should get some kind of GAME for their money and not just a one-use pick a path adventure book.

Can't XP you now, but this is the point!

 

[darjr]

If the maps and counters were left out, what could they add instead? How much of the 4e RB did that count for? In price and dev time and shipping weight? Could that mean the difference between what the 4e RB is and a full 5e 'basic' set?

 

[ExploderWizard]

If the maps and counters were left out, what could they add instead? How much of the 4e RB did that count for? In price and dev time and shipping weight? Could that mean the difference between what the 4e RB is and a full 5e 'basic' set?

The problem wasn't with the maps & counters. The actual game content was sent off to print with info that wasn't compatible with the essentials books it was meant to support. Leaving out the maps & counters would have removed any value the set had at all.

 

[frogimus]

I find it amazing the PFBB is held up as the gold standard for starter sets. IMHO, that distinction goes to the 81 and 83 Basic boxes. They were actual games, with supporting adventures and expansions.

 

[Agamon]

I find it amazing the PFBB is held up as the gold standard for starter sets. IMHO, that distinction goes to the 81 and 83 Basic boxes. They were actual games, with supporting adventures and expansions.

As I stated above, these are two separate things. PFBB is what this starter set is going to be like, an intro to the actual DDN game. The Moldvay and Mentzer sets were their own games, not starters for AD&D. I don't believe WotC has said they plan on supporting two separate lines of games, so in this case, yes, PFBB is the standard to shoot for.

 

[frogimus]

If there isn't much replayability in the Starter, they will end up alienating even more potential players. The starter should be the real game, not some downscaled version. It should be usable with any adventure/module made for DDN. It should be fun enough that people WANT to start expanding their options with the hardcovers. Not: here's a taste of what the game is almost maybe sorta like, now go get the full game and put this box in your games attic. To me, PFBB and the 4e RB did just that.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the PFBB (other than the satirical artwork). If I could have done more than the included adventure, I would have. But it was 2 hours of fun with nowhere to go afterwards. It has been untouched for nearly a year.

 

[darjr]

The problem wasn't with the maps & counters. The actual game content was sent off to print with info that wasn't compatible with the essentials books it was meant to support. Leaving out the maps & counters would have removed any value the set had at all.

sorry man. I wasn't commenting on the quality of the content of the 4e RB. Just on that I hope that the 5e starter set could be a full game like Mike Mearls envisioned. I wondered out loud if the effort and cost of those parts could be used to make the 5e starter set a complete game.

It would be san's tactical combat, sure, but I think that's a good thing.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Don't get me wrong, I loved the PFBB (other than the satirical artwork). If I could have done more than the included adventure, I would have. But it was 2 hours of fun with nowhere to go afterwards. It has been untouched for nearly a year.

IIRC the PFBB supports 5 full levels of play. This is two more levels than the Moldvay set. It was very much re-playable. The GM's guide comes with a bestiary, a selection of magic items, and a a starter town filled with further adventure seeds just waiting to be developed.

If you found yourself with nowhere to go after the intro adventure then what would you have done with the Moldvay set once you had played KOTB to death if there was no expert set?

 

[frogimus]

IIRC the PFBB supports 5 full levels of play. This is two more levels than the Moldvay set. It was very much re-playable. The GM's guide comes with a bestiary, a selection of magic items, and a a starter town filled with further adventure seeds just waiting to be developed.

If you found yourself with nowhere to go after the intro adventure then what would you have done with the Moldvay set once you had played KOTB to death if there was no expert set?

B3 Palace of the Silver Princess
B4 The Lost City
B5 Horror on the Hill

Quite a few more, but hopefully this is a decent enough selection to contrast it against a Beginner Box that was a single-use game from a company that had no intentions of supporting it as anything but a gateway to a similar but not-quite-the-same game.

But this has taken things a bit too off-topic. What I wish to see is that the DDN Starter is actually the simple set of core rules and the hardcover books cover the optional rules that satisfy 1e, 2e, 3e, and 4e players. Even so, I would buy this theoretical hardcover to gain an additional race or class. But I would expect the game to be the same between the Starter and Hardcovers.

 

[Agamon]

But this has taken things a bit too off-topic. What I wish to see is that the DDN Starter is actually the simple set of core rules and the hardcover books cover the optional rules that satisfy 1e, 2e, 3e, and 4e players. Even so, I would buy this theoretical hardcover to gain an additional race or class. But I would expect the game to be the same between the Starter and Hardcovers.

Anything that would require me to purchase a $20 "starter" to have the complete rules of the game is a pretty big turn off for myself.

If the starter set is just base rules, compatible with the core game, and those rules are also in the book, I don't see any problem with it.