D&D 5E A Barbarian, A Ranger and a designer walk into a bar

[Yunru]

So I've been thinking about the Berserker Barbarian, and how Frenzy is supposed to exhaust you, but as a result sucks because Exhaustion is too severe.

So I thought to make it consume a hit die instead, to reflect the exhaustion and lessen the consequences - Now you'll be hurting for healing but not literally dead if you Frenzy all day long.

But then the Berserker still can't Frenzy freely enough for me. It takes until level 12 for a Barbarian to be able to frenzy six times a day, every day, and that's only if (s)he doesn't spend hit dice on other things (like healing).

Then my thoughts turned to the original UA Ranger. It was a hot mess, stepping on toes everywhere and not really being very ranger-y. But one of the toes it stepped on was the Barbarian's. It had 2d6 hit dice per level. Obviously this is too strong for a Ranger, the Barbarian is supposed to be the meat sack. But that's why it's perfect for the Barbarian.

End result:

• Changed Frenzy to consume a hit die on activating.
• Changed Barbarian's hit die to 2d6.

Thoughts?

 

[phantomK9]

Using Hit Dice as a spendable or expendable resource is quite a good idea. It was done to good effect on some of the class (or maybe race) abilities in the 5e remake of The One Ring. I only remember the playtest documents and haven't seen the final version, but "hit dice as resource" worked well there. No reason it can't be used here as well.

In truth, trading out gaining exhaustion for spending Hit Dice might actually work out to be about the same since both Exhaustion and Hit Dice only come back upon a long rest anyway.

 

[Yunru]

In truth, trading out gaining exhaustion for spending Hit Dice might actually work out to be about the same since both Exhaustion and Hit Dice only come back upon a long rest anyway.

Exhaustion you only recover one level per long rest, whereas you regain up to half your maximum hit dice.

 

[LapBandit]

I think your plan to use hit die has merit and would accept it as reasonable. Another way of doing it is a scaling CON Save DC where you get once for free, DC 5 the second time, DC 10 the third, ...

 

[Blue]

I like your basic premise a good deal, and I like how it interacts with multiclassing even more. Since other classes would only be giving you a single HD per level, there's a real trade-off to your barbarian class feature if you skimp on barbarian levels.

One comment - it does make all barbarians get 2x 1d6+Con natural healing per level when they already take less damage in (key) combat because of the resistance granted by their rage. A +3 CON 1st level barbarian would be able to heal with HD to offset 26 HPs of (P/S/B) damage while a +3 CON fighter 1 would only be able to offset 8.5 damage. Is that too much? (Though my solution for that might be to buff the fighter and ranger healing as well.)

 

[BookBarbarian]

Like it was mentioned above Adventures in Middle-Earth uses hit dice and inspiration to power a variety of class, race, and even magic item effects. It works out really well.

I think it would work well here too.

Would it still require going into a rage to start a Frenzy? if it does you'll still be limited to 2-6 Frenzies per day until level 20.

 

[Blue]

Okay, I'm leapfrogging my own idea. Starting with the premise that the non-casters aren't overpowered, since I will be boosting them but I think they will still be in the acceptable curve.

This doesn't pass the "sacred cow" test. It's just playing around.

Barbarian HD changes to 3d4. Triggering Berserk during a rage costs 2 HD. Triggering an extra rage (after the allotment per day) costs 3 HD and a level of exhaustion.

Fighter HD changes to 2d6. Champion may turn a hit that rolled natural 15-18 into a crit by spending 2 HD. Battle Master start with 1 superiority die per rest (and increase as normal from there), but may spend HD as superiority dice.

Ranger HD changes to 2d6.

Paladin HD changes to d12.

General 1-2/level uplift in HP for the warrior types, more natural healing since CON will apply to all of them except for the Paladin, which already has healing. Barbs can get extra rages which is a power up. Fighters (except EKs) can get extra uses of their primary abilities.

Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger multiclassing with each other doesn't hurt their HD spend too much, though Barbs are the kings of it. But taking other classes with single HD will impact their ability to fuel these extra abilities so it's not easily cherry-picked.

Just a thought experiment, playing around with your excellent concept.

 

[Mephista]

where does the ranger part come in?

 

[Yunru]

where does the ranger part come in?

He's only useful in reference. Like usual

 

[Quickleaf]

So I've been thinking about the Berserker Barbarian, and how Frenzy is supposed to exhaust you, but as a result sucks because Exhaustion is too severe.

So I thought to make it consume a hit die instead, to reflect the exhaustion and lessen the consequences - Now you'll be hurting for healing but not literally dead if you Frenzy all day long.

But then the Berserker still can't Frenzy freely enough for me. It takes until level 12 for a Barbarian to be able to frenzy six times a day, every day, and that's only if (s)he doesn't spend hit dice on other things (like healing).

Then my thoughts turned to the original UA Ranger. It was a hot mess, stepping on toes everywhere and not really being very ranger-y. But one of the toes it stepped on was the Barbarian's. It had 2d6 hit dice per level. Obviously this is too strong for a Ranger, the Barbarian is supposed to be the meat sack. But that's why it's perfect for the Barbarian.

End result:

• Changed Frenzy to consume a hit die on activating.
• Changed Barbarian's hit die to 2d6.

Thoughts?

I think your first change (changing Frenzy to consume HD instead of impose Exhaustion) is sufficient.

In my games, players avoid(ed) Exhaustion like the plague. Exhaustion is a hugely punitive system – You begin by having Disadvantage on Ability Checks! That's a huge setback! All your skill checks now have disadvantage! Then your speed is halved – not so bad, but could be a PITA if you have encounters at range. And then you have Disadvantage on Attack rolls and saving throws! If players hated the first stage of Exhaustion, they despised this with all their beings; in fact, I never saw a player willingly let their PC succumb to Exhaustion stage 3. At that point, the maths change and the party just wanted to long rest to get over the Exhaustion.