A bit tired of people knocking videogames...

[Dannyalcatraz]

No.

"I think 4e is too videogamey because X, Y, Z," isn't the whole picture. What they actually mean is "In my opinion, 4e does X, Y, and Z. Also, in my opinion, these things are representative of video games. Video games are bad/don't belong in tabletop games because I said so. Therefore, things X, Y, and Z are bad."

No. You're obviously not understanding what people have actually written in this thread.

"I think 4e is too videogamey because X, Y, Z," means that X, Y and Z remind the speaker of a videogame or games that, whether or not they like X, Y and Z in those games, they don't care for them in their TTRPG experiences.

 

[Dannager]

No. You're obviously not understanding what people have actually written in this thread.

"I think 4e is too videogamey because X, Y, Z," means that X, Y and Z remind the speaker of a videogame or games that, whether or not they like X, Y and Z in those games, they don't care for them in their TTRPG experiences.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I don't think you did. I didn't say anything about whether the person in question liked X, Y, and Z in the video game they're from. Re-read my post.

 

[Aramax]

There are people who complain that "This tabletop roleplaying game is too video-gamey!" when what they actually mean is "This tabletop roleplaying game has too many game-like elements!" Video games are the popular scapegoat because a) people are very familiar with them, b) they are contemporary, and c) there are some pretty strong elitist WoW-is-for-losers, video-games-don't-let-me-do-whatever-I-want, my-entertainment-medium-of-choice-is-better-than-yours threads running through the tabletop gaming community.

Immersion is incredibly overrated.

This is me totaly-guilty

 

[Aeolius]

This whole thread is making me want to design a multi-layered dungeon with a giant gorilla throwing barrels on the top level.

 

[Glade Riven]

No. You're obviously not understanding what people have actually written in this thread.

"I think 4e is too videogamey because X, Y, Z," means that X, Y and Z remind the speaker of a videogame or games that, whether or not they like X, Y and Z in those games, they don't care for them in their TTRPG experiences.

Here's the problem: Typically, what is said is "I don't like x because it is too much like a videogame." Very little exposition is typically given as to 1. Why it feels like a videogame and B. Why feeling like a videogame in this instance is a bad thing.

Now, some of the posts in this thread do go into it and break it down. But when the phrase "I hate it because it feels like a videogame" tossed around and treated like an insult to a particular product (which happens in the edition warring that goes on), it lacks the exposition needed to place the phrase in a context that makes any sense beyond just ragging on something.

So what we have is a "sound-bite" that becomes an oft-repeated reason for why something sucks. If there is a lack of additional context, it just becomes an insult that implies any influence from videogames to P&P RPGs is a bad plan and ruins the roleplaying experiance.

And if someone isn't willing to put the context in there to support their complaint, I'm going to wonder just What in Bigby's Green Trunk of Doom you're talking about, because I don't have that negative association. I may reject your argument, but will agree to disagree.

Otherwise, "I hate this because this is like a videogame" becomes about as informative as two politicians claiming the other hates working families. It's emotive but ultimatly pointless to the argument, and at best turns the argument into a joke.

Oh, and Carthage must be Destroyed.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Did you even read what I wrote?

I don't think you did. I didn't say anything about whether the person in question liked X, Y, and Z in the video game they're from. Re-read my post.

I did read your post and found:

1) "Video games are bad". That's a judgement of the source material that does not necessarily follow from the statement about being "videogamey."

2) "because I said so.". Here, you're making us sound arbitrary, petulant and demanding that our preferences be catered to. We are not- we are expressing an opinion of elements we don't like in the game, much like some don't like the "Elf Proliferation Treaty" that seemed to require that there was a unique kind of elf for every ecosystem.

3) "Therefore, things X, Y, and Z are bad." Again, a judgement not supported by the statement. We do not necessarily feel that X, Y, and Z are bad, just that we don't like them in our TTRPGs.

 

[I'm A Banana]

What they actually mean

100% of internet conversations would be less contentious if those engaged listen to what the other actually says rather than trying to analyze what the other "actually means."

That said, people are free to determine that they don't like something for whatever reason they want.

I do think that videogames get a bit of an unfair rep, but I'm much more interested in talking about the benefits and problems with the XYZs than I am in defending videogames from ill repute to D&D nerds.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Here's the problem: Typically, what is said is "I don't like x because it is too much like a videogame." Very little exposition is typically given as to 1. Why it feels like a videogame and B. Why feeling like a videogame in this instance is a bad thing.

I covered this upthread: treat it like any other opening statement to a dialog. Expecting someone to lay out their entire detailed assessment in their opening statement is unrealistic.

If you want to know the particulars, ask. You may also assume that you know what they meant. Or you can accept it on it's face as a statement of opinion and emotion.

The problem usually arises when people choose the second option, assuming that the word "videogamey" was an indictment of videogames, of playstyles or what have you.

 

[ExploderWizard]

This whole thread is making me want to design a multi-layered dungeon with a giant gorilla throwing barrels on the top level.

LOL!! I beat you to it. I ran a BD&D game at a local gameday that featured a long sprial staircase leaging up to a room with a large guardian ape. The PCs triggered the alarm on the stairs and the trained ape began throwing barrels down the stairwell which the PCs had to either dodge or destroy as they went through.

 

[The Shaman]

LOL!! I beat you to it.

As have many others.

Before that dungeon masters often ran a labyrinth featuring a magic chalice and the dragons Grundle, Rhingle, and Yorgle.