A Chang-xiao-bang/Dai-so-jo prestige class?

Mycanid

First Post
Hey folks. In another thread I started up looking for the name of a B grade kung fu flick here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=189936

I learned the technical name for a specific oriental weapon known as the lashing stick. There are two and three section versions of this: Here is a link that tells a little bit about them:

http://flyingeagleacademy.com/samjitgwun.html

Anyway, these weapons are so specialized I thought a special prestige class for the monk (not the fighter) would be in order.

I would like the weapons detailed and laid out as a weapon in general (damage, etc.)

Any build ideas would also be welcome!

Hmm ... or has something like this been done before?
 

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Celebrim

Legend
In my opinion, the 'three section staff' is a variant staff. There really is very little you can do with one weapon that you can't do with the other. The three section staff potentially develops a more powerful strike at the expense of being much more difficult to control at all times and slower to recover from a far strike. I consider that mostly a wash except for the time required to learn the weapon. But basically, its just a variant staff.

That said, the staff itself is a very underused weapon which probably deserves its own feat tree (and I've seen at least a few attempts at this).

At most, you might develop a specific tactical feat for wielders of the 'three section staff'. If you look at the 10 primary techniques listed in the second link, you'll see that they are mostly basicly staff techniques or equivalents. Only two of them (the 'elbow strike' and the 'coiling dragon') have no real comparison with traditional staff technique and use the sectioned staffs flexibility, and those are the showiest most stage-like techniques. The best I can think of is that technique #1 'Iron Elbow' would a) grant a bonus on your Bluff check (say +4) and a small bonus to damage (say +2) when feinting with the weapon and b) Allow you to attack two separate targets (at -2 to hit) with a single standard action after a successful feint, and technique #2 'Coiled Dragon' would allow you to as a full round action make a single attack against a target 5-10' away in which your strength bonus was doubled.

So, putting that together.

Three Section Staff Technique [General, Fighter, Tactical]
You've learned the secret techniques of using the Sam-Jit-Gwun
Prerequisites: Proficiency with the Staff, Weapon Focus (Staff), 3 ranks Jump, 3 ranks Tumble
Benefit: If the staff you are wielding is of the three section variaty, you may use the following manuevers.
  • 'Iron Elbow': When ever you feint, you gain a +4 bonus on your Bluff check. If you catch you opponent flat footed, you gain a +2 bonus to damage.
  • 'Double Elbow': Whenever you have feinted, when you do your follow up attack as a standard action you may choose to do two strikes instead of one. Each strike is at your full BAB but at a -2 penalty to hit.
  • 'Coiled Dragon': A a full round action, you may make a single attack at an opponent using the staff as either a normal or reach weapon. If the attack is successful, you may double your strength bonus for the purpose of determining damage.
Normal: A three section staff is considered to be a variant staff and gains no special benefit or penalty, provided that the weapon is on the users cultural weapon list.

As an aside, whenever you see that a weapon is 'rarely taught' you should understand that to mean that the weapon is difficult to learn compared to its effectiveness. If the weapon was truly effective, more people would have bothered to learn how to use it.
 
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Mycanid

First Post
Celebrim said:
That said, the staff itself is a very underused weapon which probably deserves its own feat tree (and I've seen at least a few attempts at this).

Hmm ... this sounds interesting. Any links or sources you can think of or recommend for more on this?
 


Mycanid

First Post
NilesB said:
The Dai-Si-Jo is just a heavy flail, that said a flail master prestige class could be very cool.

Hmm ... from what I have seen it is not really the same thing. The striking end of the heavy flail is very different, and the Dai-so-jo would, IMO, cause less damage, don't you think? It is designed to be a little more "acrobatically" used, as I have seen it used at least.

Still a Flail master prestige class could also be cool ... but that is much more fighter based rather than monk based I think....
 

Celebrim

Legend
NilesB said:
The Dai-Si-Jo is just a heavy flail, that said a flail master prestige class could be very cool.

Well, don't you think its alot more like 'dire flail' since its a dual weapon, only it does staff damage because its more like a staff than a flail? In other words, don't you think its more like a staff?

DOH: You are talking about the two section version. Yeah, sure, I agree that the two section version is basically just a heavy flail.
 
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Mycanid

First Post
Celebrim said:
Well, don't you think its alot more like 'dire flail' since its a dual weapon, only it does staff damage because its more like a staff than a flail? In other words, don't you think its more like a staff?

Maybe you could sat that the Sam-jit-gwun is like the dire flail. Three staff sections - three sections in dire flail. But again ... the dire flail is SO much heavier! It's like saying a two foot long stick is the same thing as a mace. They still seem totally different.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Ok, brain storming up some staff related feats.

Staff Mastery
You've become a true master of the quarterstaff
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus (Staff), BAB +1, Dex 11
Benefit: When wielding the quarterstaff, you can also use it to make trip attacks. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the staff to avoid being tripped. You get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an enemy (including the opposed attack roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).

Long Style
You're expertise with the staff lets you use its length to your best advantage.
Prerequisite: Medium size or larger, Weapon Focus (Staff), BAB +1, Dex 13
Benefit: You can switch between wielding the quarterstaff as a two-handed reach weapon and a double weapon once per round as a free action.
Normal: Switching between wielding the quarterstaff as a reach or non-reach weapon requires a move action.

Center of the Forest
Prerequisite: Medium size or larger, Long Style, Weapon Focus (Staff), BAB +3, Dex 13, 3 ranks Jump, 3 ranks Tumble
Benefit: You now threaten both adjacent and reach squares when wielding a staff.
Normal: You must threaten either reach or non-reach squares depending on how you last wielded the staff.

Great Leverage
Prequisite: Medium size or larger, Long Style, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Staff), BAB +3, Str 13, Dex 13
Benefit: When wielding the staff as a double weapon, all your attacks with either hand are treated as attacks with a two-handed weapon for the purpose of calculating the bonus to damage due to strength.

Wooden Walls
Prerequisite: Combat Expertise, Staff Mastery, Weapon Focus (Staff), BAB +4, Dex 11, Int 13
Benefit: When wielding the staff, you gain a bonus to your shield AC versus melee attacks equal to your BAB/4.
 
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